contracting the 4* tier

2

Comments

  • Jexy
    Jexy Posts: 52 Match Maker
    It's a very boring moment right now. Hopefully this latter part of the year sees something more interesting. (Narrator: it didn't.)
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    I remember getting bored with Clash of Clans after about five years of playing. They added a new mode, the Builder’s Base, to try to spice things up and because it wouldn’t have survived as its own game. It was pretty annoying for me to have to build something from scratch after having maxed out everything else, even if I technically did not have too. But that was when I decided that I no longer enjoyed the game an moved on. 

    The developers should be careful adding new modes, but I think they learned their lesson from how poorly supports were received. People might say they want a new interesting mode but they are probably just done with the game and haven’t quit because it is part of their routine.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,828 Chairperson of the Boards
    Every single time they add something new they're deluged with complaints from the same group of veteran players who complain that the game is stale. 

    Those players are the loudest, they react the most to any kind of change, and they will never, ever quit.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    And they

    1) reduced the clears from 4/3 to 3/2 in SCL 10.

    2)  made most of the Join Forces nodes a one-hit node.

    3) made Shield Training more accessible for lower tier players

    4) changed UI where you can sort by colours and rarity

    5) made saved teams; albeit limited for some.

    I think all the above are pretty big QoL changes.

    I know there are people expecting more. Instead of 3/2 clears, they are expecting 1/0 clear. I can assure them that the game will shut down before they can see 1/0 clear in SCL 10 regular pves. 

    As for new game modes, I think it was figured out that it takes them 4 to 6 months to create a new story event mode. This year, they are laser-focused on UI and bugs fixing. Come this Anniversary, hopefully, there's some new alliance event or new themed pvp.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,828 Chairperson of the Boards
    KGB said:
    DyingLegend said:
    All this game does is release new characters.

    It would be nice if they invested in new modes, new reward structures, QoL changes etc.

    But. lets be honest, the game is super stale. New characters don't even spice that up anymore.  
    They released the Puzzle Gauntlet mode this year. That introduced a new reward structure that finally gave out a access to supports (guaranteed L3 support if you can complete, plus support tokens).
    They also added boosted 5* for PvE/PvP something that's been long asked for. That could be either a new mode or QoL change depending on your point of view.
    There has also been a bunch of UI updates too. Not all well received of course but at least we are getting regular UI updates that hopefully give QoL changes.
    The point is the game is hardly 'just releasing new characters'.
    KGB
    All of these things were met with massive, universally negative feedback from the veteran player population.
  • JHawkInc
    JHawkInc Posts: 2,605 Chairperson of the Boards
    The expansive 4*/5* roster would be interesting with Heroic events. The problem is that they were removed because they were difficult and not friendly for newer rosters. Not exactly sure of the best way to reimplement them, either as they were or as a new game mode.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Also they added milestones offering huge amount of free resources, and daily milestones helping a lot when rostering or developing 3*s and 4*s.and lessening the so despised dilution.
    They added a new 5* character giving huge amount of free resources daily, the spicy tacos.
    Surely all that doesn't matters for a lot of players, too.
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,236 Chairperson of the Boards
    entrailbucket said:
    KGB said:
    DyingLegend said:
    All this game does is release new characters.

    It would be nice if they invested in new modes, new reward structures, QoL changes etc.

    But. lets be honest, the game is super stale. New characters don't even spice that up anymore.  
    They released the Puzzle Gauntlet mode this year. That introduced a new reward structure that finally gave out a access to supports (guaranteed L3 support if you can complete, plus support tokens).
    They also added boosted 5* for PvE/PvP something that's been long asked for. That could be either a new mode or QoL change depending on your point of view.
    There has also been a bunch of UI updates too. Not all well received of course but at least we are getting regular UI updates that hopefully give QoL changes.
    The point is the game is hardly 'just releasing new characters'.
    KGB
    All of these things were met with massive, universally negative feedback from the veteran player population.
    Say what?
    There is some grumbling about certain nodes in certain months of Puzzle Gauntlet being too random and everyone whines about duplicate supports but overall I would not say it's massive universal negative feedback. In fact I'd say the response was overwhelmingly positive and excited about a new game mode and access to supports.
    No one said anything bad about boosted 5* in PvE. Boosted 5* PvP on the other hand had a lot of chatter on the Forum more because it wasn't officially announced ahead of time so players would have time to prepare (say a month or so heads up would have been nice since they clearly knew they were going to do or at least try it). Plus players weren't sure if it was temporary or permanent. It's been a long time since anyone's posted anything negative about it beyond the 'I don't have that character'.
    The UI changes that were the new gameboard and the flashing debacle were universally reviled. But the others that Hound mentioned above (saved teams, better sorting etc) were most definitely met with positives. So UI wise it's been a mixed bag.
    KGB
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,828 Chairperson of the Boards
    KGB said:
    entrailbucket said:
    KGB said:
    DyingLegend said:
    All this game does is release new characters.

    It would be nice if they invested in new modes, new reward structures, QoL changes etc.

    But. lets be honest, the game is super stale. New characters don't even spice that up anymore.  
    They released the Puzzle Gauntlet mode this year. That introduced a new reward structure that finally gave out a access to supports (guaranteed L3 support if you can complete, plus support tokens).
    They also added boosted 5* for PvE/PvP something that's been long asked for. That could be either a new mode or QoL change depending on your point of view.
    There has also been a bunch of UI updates too. Not all well received of course but at least we are getting regular UI updates that hopefully give QoL changes.
    The point is the game is hardly 'just releasing new characters'.
    KGB
    All of these things were met with massive, universally negative feedback from the veteran player population.
    Say what?
    There is some grumbling about certain nodes in certain months of Puzzle Gauntlet being too random and everyone whines about duplicate supports but overall I would not say it's massive universal negative feedback. In fact I'd say the response was overwhelmingly positive and excited about a new game mode and access to supports.
    No one said anything bad about boosted 5* in PvE. Boosted 5* PvP on the other hand had a lot of chatter on the Forum more because it wasn't officially announced ahead of time so players would have time to prepare (say a month or so heads up would have been nice since they clearly knew they were going to do or at least try it). Plus players weren't sure if it was temporary or permanent. It's been a long time since anyone's posted anything negative about it beyond the 'I don't have that character'.
    The UI changes that were the new gameboard and the flashing debacle were universally reviled. But the others that Hound mentioned above (saved teams, better sorting etc) were most definitely met with positives. So UI wise it's been a mixed bag.
    KGB
    The forum is generally much more positive these days, and the population here is much less "veteran" than the group of players I'm talking about.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,828 Chairperson of the Boards
    JHawkInc said:
    The expansive 4*/5* roster would be interesting with Heroic events. The problem is that they were removed because they were difficult and not friendly for newer rosters. Not exactly sure of the best way to reimplement them, either as they were or as a new game mode.
    Heroics are NEVER coming back.  Ever.  No chance.

    (For newer folks, Heroic PvEs were more difficult versions of the prologue maps where only certain characters could be used.  There would be a few eligible characters randomly chosen from each tier.  Most of us enjoyed them because it was fun to find random teams that worked.)

    Back when they ran heroics, they cared about character balance, and most players who were competitive had every character.  Now, the gap between good and bad characters is massive, and the players who win PvE often have a 300-level gap between their top 3 and the rest of their roster.

    Imagine a PvE event today where Okoye, Apocalypse, Polaris, and 3* Strange all happened to be locked out -- the reaction would be swift and violent, even if this was run in parallel with regular PvE, and even if it only offered a single heroic token as a reward.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    I remember Heroics.

    God I hated them.
  • TheEyeDoctorsWife
    TheEyeDoctorsWife Posts: 829 Critical Contributor
    I like the new addition of Taco: Spicy vault , I’m getting one preferred 4* every 1-2 weeks .
  • SpacemanSpiph
    SpacemanSpiph Posts: 12 Just Dropped In
    I like the idea of 4* demotion. Some calculation of age of the character and frequency of dis-use would ensure not drastically altering meta play-styles or penalizing the resources spent.
    There would probably be a short-term 'buy back' at 2-3x ISO and HP for the normal 4* sell off (same as they do with a nerf) and then putting "fresh" characters into the 3* required slots for PVP and PVE would at least offer up a change.
    Maybe some characters would be off-limits since there aren't dupes in 3* land - but that would also open the possibility of bumping some 3's down to 2's and thinning out multiple characters in 4*s (Thors, Spider-folk, Cap)
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    KGB said:
    What's the reason for contracting the 4* tier? Is it to save on roster slots?

    So again, what's the big need for contracting the tier?
    KGB
    get rid of the garbage 4* characters? i dunno, you use dazzler much? northstar, Kraven, frostillicus, ta hulk, magik, talos, karolina, mysterio, ghost, torch, maria hill, black cat, negasonic... and about 20-30 more. 

    so many bad characters, so many useless characters. but hey if you like em all and use em all good on ya. 
  • Mr_F
    Mr_F Posts: 744 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2021
    Maybe YOU do not use half of the 4* roster we have BUT I DO. I use them on weekly basis even if my 5* can do all the lifting. Maybe not ALL of them but definetly I use many. And Some of the one you mentioned I even like and back in 4* land I had teams for them.
    In Sinister 6 Alliance event I used like 30-40 different 4*. Because I can an they are fun.
  • Akoni
    Akoni Posts: 790 Critical Contributor
    jredd said:
    KGB said:
    What's the reason for contracting the 4* tier? Is it to save on roster slots?

    So again, what's the big need for contracting the tier?
    KGB
    get rid of the garbage 4* characters? i dunno, you use dazzler much? northstar, Kraven, frostillicus, ta hulk, magik, talos, karolina, mysterio, ghost, torch, maria hill, black cat, negasonic... and about 20-30 more. 

    so many bad characters, so many useless characters. but hey if you like em all and use em all good on ya. 

    Hey, leave Maria Hill alone.  :D

    The question I have is this: Is the OP advocating for the "contraction" of the 4* list or the "demotion" of some 4* characters? There is a significant difference. Contracting can simply mean getting rid of them while demoting means increasing the 3* pool. The primary argument seems to be based on the quality of the characters. What if the characters were tweaked to make them more meta, so to speak. According to the complaint, this would solve the problem.

    I would argue that the issue is a bit different. I think it has to do with choice, There are are so many 4* characters that making a choice becomes overwhelming. It's akin to going to the grocery store to buy chips. As you walk down the aisle, you must decide whether you want potato, tortilla, veggie, plantain, cassava, or meat-based chips like pork rinds. After that, you have to pick a brand, then a flavor. There could easily be 20 different brands with 3 or more flavors each. Sometimes the choice is made simple because there is a sale or some new product advertised. 

    In MPQ, the choice of which character to use is similar to which chip to buy. The game makes it easier at times by saying "check out these boosted characters" as if they are on sale. Occasionally, a new character is introduced which also makes the choice simple as well. Outside of these two instances, it's just easier to make the same choices each time you shop/play. With that said, the game does not necessarily require you to purchase a bag of every type of chip... I mean character. Rostering every character is a choice. We can choose not to keep a character and, therefore, miss out on those benefits. The game still gives handouts in the form of loaners for events. I farm so it doesn't bother me, but I can see where the OP is coming from.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    The game gives exactly the same value to all 4* covers being them meta or not.
    Demoting them to 3* for any strange reason ultimately harms advanced players collecting them and only benefits newer players on 3* tier or very relaxed f2p 4*s players who then could have ex former 4*s for almost free on 3*s.
    Instead of thinking ways to demoting the game quality it would be great to think ways to improving personal achievements and progress, imo.
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2021
    jredd said:
    KGB said:
    What's the reason for contracting the 4* tier? Is it to save on roster slots?

    So again, what's the big need for contracting the tier?
    KGB
    get rid of the garbage 4* characters? i dunno, you use dazzler much? northstar, Kraven, frostillicus, ta hulk, magik, talos, karolina, mysterio, ghost, torch, maria hill, black cat, negasonic... and about 20-30 more. 

    so many bad characters, so many useless characters. but hey if you like em all and use em all good on ya. 
    All 4*s are or will be used by everyone in the game. Most of them as champ reward bags but still.
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sekilicious said:
    jredd said:
    KGB said:
    What's the reason for contracting the 4* tier? Is it to save on roster slots?

    So again, what's the big need for contracting the tier?
    KGB
    get rid of the garbage 4* characters? i dunno, you use dazzler much? northstar, Kraven, frostillicus, ta hulk, magik, talos, karolina, mysterio, ghost, torch, maria hill, black cat, negasonic... and about 20-30 more. 

    so many bad characters, so many useless characters. but hey if you like em all and use em all good on ya. 
    All 4*s are or will be used by everyone in the game. Most of them as champ reward bags but still.
     But is that good enough? maybe we should be talking about rebalances, but when was the last time that happened? about the same time the last support was released? 

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