Are buffed characters in tournaments needed?

Unknown

This is actually more of a discussion topic than anything else. From my perspective, while the character of a tournament is normally buffed, I never find it actually needed. For one, it puts those who do not have the cover(s) at a great disadvantage to those who do have a powered up version already primed and ready. And secondly, and this becomes more prominent in Lightning rounds, some characters just really don't need to be buffed.... ever.

And this is coming from someone who has a decent level doom. 3 stars end up just doing what I refer to as "stupid" damage.

What do you all think of the buffed characters? Would it be more appropriate to set guest characters at a predetermined level instead, as a solution?

Unknown

They should just give us higher level version rather than buffing. This would limit C.Storm rounds and stop high level cards from dominating so bad.

Unknown

Only underutilized lower-tiers like Yelena, Hawkeye, etc. Thor, no. Rag, hell no.

Unknown

I don't think any character needs to be buffed nor should you be forced to use a character in pvp matches, it hampers team variety.

Unknown

It would help if we knew what the motivations of the devs were when they decided to go this route. I understand why it was done in the 'story mode' portion of the game. Was it to encourage players to try new characters or was it to 'show off' characters to new players in an effort to make them want to gamble for them in the store?

If it was the latter, it makes more sense to provide every one with a mid-leveled hero/villan that has max covers. That way you can understand the full range of their powers and how they can interact with your current team. No artificial buffs needed.

By providing us with a low-leveled default character with only one cover, you're not really encouraging us to experiment with them at all. Even with the 200% buff it doesn't really give the new player an idea of what the character can do. All it does is reward the player that already has a high level version of them. Game-breakingly so.

IceIX

Toxicadam wrote:

By providing us with a low-leveled default character with only one cover, you're not really encouraging us to experiment with them at all. Even with the 200% buff it doesn't really give the new player an idea of what the character can do. All it does is reward the player that already has a high level version of them. Game-breakingly so.

We want to strike a balance between player levels with buffed characters. We want to show off what certain characters can do, definitely, but we also can't push that envelope too far with higher levels. We also want people to constantly reevaluate characters, which buffing characters does a good job of. Just after the first Lightning Rounds with a buffed Hood for example, there was a pretty large uptick in people leveling and using him. But pushing the envelope too far with levels and the like means that players that just start out will rely on buffed Team Ups since their normal heroes are completely useless. A 100% buffed Level 40 3/3/3 The Hood for example would make the rest of a starting player's team completely useless and any matchmaking at that level would be Hood on Hood with no input from the rest of the teams. We're looking into ways to make the buffed characters still viable and preferable without causing this issue.

Unknown

How can you write all that and not see the obvious solution sitting in front of your face? Give us a mid level character with all 3s for abilities and NOT buff them.

Eta: buffing in general has been exploity and degenerative the whole way. It's been a general failure.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

By providing us with a low-leveled default character with only one cover, you're not really encouraging us to experiment with them at all. Even with the 200% buff it doesn't really give the new player an idea of what the character can do. All it does is reward the player that already has a high level version of them. Game-breakingly so.

We want to strike a balance between player levels with buffed characters. We want to show off what certain characters can do, definitely, but we also can't push that envelope too far with higher levels. We also want people to constantly reevaluate characters, which buffing characters does a good job of. Just after the first Lightning Rounds with a buffed Hood for example, there was a pretty large uptick in people leveling and using him. But pushing the envelope too far with levels and the like means that players that just start out will rely on buffed Team Ups since their normal heroes are completely useless. A 100% buffed Level 40 3/3/3 The Hood for example would make the rest of a starting player's team completely useless and any matchmaking at that level would be Hood on Hood with no input from the rest of the teams. We're looking into ways to make the buffed characters still viable and preferable without causing this issue.

Easy make it PvE only like what you've done with Classic Spiderman in the Venom chapter. Just have more PvE chapters and dedicate them to different characters. PvP should be player choice and the ability to win based on how well your team works, not on whether your characters drew the lucky straw and got buffed.

Unknown

I still can't get over this. IceX level with me here. Do you honestly think that forcing a minimum level character with 1 point in 1 ability with a giant sack of hp is a good way to show off a character?

Unknown

CaptainBatman wrote:

Easy make it PvE only like what you've done with Classic Spiderman in the Venom chapter.

That seems like the perfect way to show off new characters.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

We also want people to constantly reevaluate characters, which buffing characters does a good job of. Just after the first Lightning Rounds with a buffed Hood for example, there was a pretty large uptick in people leveling and using him.

Or could it be that The Hood was given out in increased quantities? Or maybe they're levelling them because boosted characters have a significant advantage to win the lightning rounds?

IceIX

ihearthawthats wrote:

Or could it be that The Hood was given out in increased quantities? Or maybe they're levelling them because boosted characters have a significant advantage to win the lightning rounds?

Nope, The original Lightning Rounds that featured him gave out a handful of covers but leveling spiked across the board from both people that won him and others that didn't.

IceIX

Ranzera wrote:

How can you write all that and not see the obvious solution sitting in front of your face? Give us a mid level character with all 3s for abilities and NOT buff them.

Eta: buffing in general has been exploity and degenerative the whole way. It's been a general failure.

That doesn't solve the issue of making Tourney teams stagnate when there isn't something special going on (like the Avengers Only Tourney). A mid level character would have to be low enough to not eliminate usefulness of other characters for low level players, and good enough so that players at higher levels would want to use that character. If that character wasn't powerful enough, the Tourney may as well just be an FFA no buffs Tournament for anyone above that level which gets rid of the entire intent behind showcasing a character in the first place. Why use a level 40 Wolverine when you have an 85 Storm, 85 Thor, and 100 Spider-Man? You wouldn't bother, and may never know that a given character may fit with your playstyle or open up a new avenue of play that you didn't see before.

And no, I personally don't think that a base character is the best way of showing off what they can do. It's just the system that's in place at the moment. It could definitely be a place for iteration.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

By providing us with a low-leveled default character with only one cover, you're not really encouraging us to experiment with them at all. Even with the 200% buff it doesn't really give the new player an idea of what the character can do. All it does is reward the player that already has a high level version of them. Game-breakingly so.

We want to strike a balance between player levels with buffed characters. We want to show off what certain characters can do, definitely, but we also can't push that envelope too far with higher levels. We also want people to constantly reevaluate characters, which buffing characters does a good job of. Just after the first Lightning Rounds with a buffed Hood for example, there was a pretty large uptick in people leveling and using him. But pushing the envelope too far with levels and the like means that players that just start out will rely on buffed Team Ups since their normal heroes are completely useless. A 100% buffed Level 40 3/3/3 The Hood for example would make the rest of a starting player's team completely useless and any matchmaking at that level would be Hood on Hood with no input from the rest of the teams. We're looking into ways to make the buffed characters still viable and preferable without causing this issue.

I find it very hard to believe that a (non buffed) Hood that is level 40 and has 3/3/3 would 'dominate the board' of most players that have high level 2 or level 1 characters.

So, it would serve as an example to players that don't have access to him but also leave you a lot of room for people that DO have a high level Hood to still get an advantage.

As it stands now, the buffed versions of these characters give a very distorted view of how they actually perform. Not only because you don't have access to all their powers, but these buffs grossly inflate how much damage they do when critical tiles are thrown down. Inaccurately exhibiting their damage potential.

IceIX wrote:

Why use a level 40 Wolverine when you have an 85 Storm, 85 Thor, and 100 Spider-Man? You wouldn't bother, and may never know that a given character may fit with your playstyle or open up a new avenue of play that you didn't see .

Just as it is now, you don't give the user a choice. You get a level 40 Wolverine (or better, if you possess one) and your two best characters.

People that are competetive. will then look to power level their Wolverine in an attempt to get the advantage. But that advantage won't be exponentially distorted as it is now.

Unknown

People are leveling The Hood because that's the only lightning round that suffers huge point losses when you lose. Still have no idea why The Hood tournaments are so special compared to the rest

Unknown

I get trying to show new people. Then how about buffing only the guest cover, not the level 45 doom who can wipe out entire teams with just tiles.

Unknown

for these tournaments, i could only realisticly level 2 villains, a ragnarok i won the previous week, and dr doom (i leveled him because i got hit by 2k per turn and was wowed by it). if it wasn't dr doom, i'd have leveled hood. its just the way the tourney is, having two villains (or 3) gives u a great advantage in the lightning rounds.

IceIX

ZzzWolph wrote:

People are leveling The Hood because that's the only lightning round that suffers huge point losses when you lose. Still have no idea why The Hood tournaments are so special compared to the rest

The Hood was just an example. We saw a similar spike back in the day when we ran a Venom Tournament. Bunch of latent Venoms in people's collections. Tournament ends and people level Venom since they see the advantages.

Nemek

IceIX wrote:

ZzzWolph wrote:

People are leveling The Hood because that's the only lightning round that suffers huge point losses when you lose. Still have no idea why The Hood tournaments are so special compared to the rest

The Hood was just an example. We saw a similar spike back in the day when we ran a Venom Tournament. Bunch of latent Venoms in people's collections. Tournament ends and people level Venom since they see the advantages.

I leveled my Venom to 40 for that tournament. Good times devouring whole teams. Would never had done it otherwise. This led to my first victory over the prologue Ragnarok.

Unknown

In the interest of being constructive, why not make it dynamic then?

Always give them 2 or 3 upgrades in every power but do some kind of math on the other 2 selected characters present. Like iron man 1 star is being used and is level 47 and there is a 2 star storm that's level 85. If you just avarage them you could get a mid 60s hood. That may not be ideal but you get the idea.

Unknown

I sorta quite like the buffed characters when they are 1* or 2* and not used often, and/or if it's a tournament build around that character, such as the Venom tournaments.

I think what's gone pear-shaped recently is the Thor weekend (when nearly everyone was using Thor anyway) followed by a tournament with a massive boost to Ragnarok (when everyone who can afford him, is using him - and everyone who isn't is struggling to win him because they don't have a boosted Ragnarok already.)

These tournaments aren't rewarding diversity - they're just reinforcing already proven builds. Whereas hardly anyone complained when Yelena got buffed a while back

I also appreciate that it's harder to get people to play 1* and 2* heroes when they have 3* heroes available but that rod was made for the Dev team's back when the decision was made to have tiered power levels. Holding 1* only (or 2* only, or Avengers/Dark Avengers/whatever) tournaments takes care of that admirably. I'm never going to throw away Storm (Modern) if I know that there's a chance of using her in a 1-star tournament.

Beyond that, there is a need to improve power balance within the same tier. Although the game isn't by any means broken and there's more than one good team to play, it's clear that there are some heroes that significantly out-perform others within the same star rating. The long-term answer to this isn't to randomly buff the weaker heroes - it's to make them a more viable choice even when they are not buffed.

TLDR version: balance heroes within each star-rating, use theme tournaments to make 1* and 2* heroes still contribute meaningfully, then throw in an occasional random buff or two to shake things up.