Regrets for breaking the hoard: 5Clops?

LavaManLee

I'm sure I will regret this, but I think 5Clops will eventually become useful if they keep doing Phoenix5.  I totally broke the hoard today and champed him, Colossus and Switch.  Now I will save again for the next three.

So, has anyone had any luck using 5Clops?  Thanks!

ThaRoadWarrior

I was messing around with using him between Thor and ghost rider. Since ghost rider tanks green and black over similarly leveled Thor, you can let Cyclops burn yellow while jacking up the base damage on both Thor’s passive tile break and Hell Ride’s 300% tile nibble. It wasn’t fast, but it was fun. I also like him betwixt Onslaught and Profe$$or X, which actually does slap pretty hard. It may be worth noting I am still working on my own Sighclops

Tiger_Wong

5clops
5*Colossus
America Chavez

entrailbucket

He's pretty bad.

Longer answer: in MPQ there are effectively only two tiers of 5* characters, ones you'd use when you want to win and everyone else.  I often refer to the "everyone else" group as the trash tier, because they sort of are.

You can actually make some fun teams from those guys, but ultimately if you're actually trying to win you'd never use them on purpose.

The two tier concept makes character rankings really easy: they're either someone you'd use when you want to win or they're not worth worrying about.  The individual power rankings within the bottom tier don't really matter -- if you're using a character in that group it's for some reason other than how good they are.

BlackBoltRocks

As mentioned by myself and RoadWarrior several times, he's really fun with Profslaught. Despite his relatively high AP costs, he seems to fire off Red and Green frequently enough when teamed with those two. He's also good with Colossu5 and Wanda, and generally a decent supporter.

shardwick

I have eight covers for him and with the new milestones I thought about pulling the trigger and stopping once I got him fully covered but honestly he's just not that fun to me even when he's boosted in pve. He puts me to sleep faster than ASMR.

acescracked

The good thing about pulling for 5clops is he's in Latest with two *other* characters you want. Hopefully you pull all Wanda and Colossus and don't actually get him.

Theghouse

@ThaRoadWarrior 's thread actually convinced me to start pulling as I go and trying to champ them all.  When I champed Warlock i ended up with 11 Sighclops covers, so I was waiting until Warlock left before continuing to try and finish YJ and would then see what happened with Sighclops.

Then Wanda was announced and she's a must-have for the current PvP meta so I skipped pulling during YJ's last cycle who has no value outside of invisibility tricks for exceedingly difficult challenge and shield Training nodes, and there are more reliable gimmicks for those anyways.

Then Knull was announced and my Sighclops is already at 11 so I'm skipping his last cycle too.  Between Sighclops and Knull, Knull has at least some value as a scarecrow with huge HP and lots of tiles and passives that slow the match down and can be dangerous when power boosted.  It was one thing when Sighclops had the new character god boost, but now I don't think you'd ever actually pick him over another third who will do something more useful.

Colossus and Wanda are great characters in the current PvP meta. But you will probably come to regret breaking with Sighclops over Knull as the third.

Srheer0

LavaManLee said:

I'm sure I will regret this, but I think 5Clops will eventually become useful if they keep doing Phoenix5.  I totally broke the hoard today and champed him, Colossus and Switch.  Now I will save again for the next three.

So, has anyone had any luck using 5Clops?  Thanks!

How many pull out of interest?

I've pulled a lot and am still missing the majority of Cyclops covers (need 5 or so to champ). Wanda and Cycl5ps are champed, cyclops had 18 covers total.

Statistically, his best partner is probably Cable.  

Match yellow tiles and his countdowns / repeaters get fortified. Which helps them survive long enough. And you generally want to get a bunch of yellow because its arguably his best power in terms of potential damage, And at 5 points its 1:1 tup ratio instead of 2:1.

Third I am undeceided on. Switch could be good. Use her pink on yellow to get even faster AP (but less likely to be able to match TUP) and her green repeater can also get fortified with matching yellows.

Could maybe use t4rch, cycl5ops and c5rol to make a bunch of countdowns and repeaters. Only downside is they share a lot of common colours.

Polares

LavaManLee said:

I'm sure I will regret this, but I think 5Clops will eventually become useful if they keep doing Phoenix5.  I totally broke the hoard today and champed him, Colossus and Switch.  Now I will save again for the next three.

So, has anyone had any luck using 5Clops?  Thanks!

I am starting to doubt they will do more Phoenix5 chars. It might just be that they didnt want to make things easy for us the players, so we could get the 3 of them in the same batch but if the next 5 is not a Phoenix5 char, they might not release another one...

LavaManLee

Srheer0 said:

LavaManLee said:

I'm sure I will regret this, but I think 5Clops will eventually become useful if they keep doing Phoenix5.  I totally broke the hoard today and champed him, Colossus and Switch.  Now I will save again for the next three.

So, has anyone had any luck using 5Clops?  Thanks!

How many pull out of interest?

205 pulls (give or take) to champ all three (Cyke/Cyclops/Switch).  I had around 270 pulls and have about 65 left.

Bad

He has an unique power, so just for that reason I need his yellow at 5. Then I can continue to champ him or not(surely thanks to my luck I will need to champ him). But in a 4th or 5th node he can be fun to play.
So I still need to pull for him.

ammenell

wow, 205 is a low number to champ all three, congrats! 

LavaManLee

As reference my Colossus was at 1/1/0, Cyclops at 0/1/0 and Switch at 2/0/0 before I started.

Warbringa

I am debating the same quandary right now, Sighclops or Knull as I am certainly going to cover Colossus and Scarlet.  I do believe that Sighclops yellow may be more valuable down the road as a unique power and a green stun (while over-priced) is fairly uncommon.  I at first, was really impressed with Knull, but the more I analyze him and played with him, he seems mediocre and doesn't do one individual thing better than other characters (his thorns is unique but more about that in a minute). I have to say that I think Knull's most attractive feature is his massive health pool and match damage.  I ask Knull, Office Space style, what exactly do you say you do here? Knull responds: 

1.) I am big and beefy - but in this meta 15K more health and higher match damage really isn't that scarecrow like by itself 
2.) I am going to punish attackers- passive damage that hits back when allies are hit (his purple thorns).  So far my experience with this power has been extremely dicey.  Every time I seem to fire the power in his intro event, the countdowns are matched away before his thorns usually even worked.  While it looks like an impressive power, it is middling at best since it is countdown based and requires a moderate amount of AP.  If you happen to get the countdowns to go down, you get tiles but good luck with that.  Scarlet seems to have a better thorns option since it can actually prevent damage and then deal damage back.
3.) I create tiles - yes but not as effectively as other characters that are available.  Not bad but not great. 
4.) I avoid protect tiles - yes a nice perk but not completely unheard of (5Thor and Apoc).  On the downside he gets no benefits from them so that's not a big deal but certainly it makes this ability slightly less effective and that health pool not as impressive.  
5.) I deal passive damage and prevent healing - he does have a couple of abilities here, perhaps his best, that deal passive damage.  The damage is very low so he actually needs other characters like Okoye or Apocalypse to support him ironically.  The permanent health damage isn't a big deal with the way damage is thrown around in the meta so I think that is a highly overrated ability right now.  While he probably does a better job than BB as a passive damager he pales to iHulk or Spiderman 2099 even.  You also don't get to choose who damages, it is the lowest health character. Not a big issue but having a choice or damaging everyone is better than not having a choice.
6.) I destroy green tiles and can cause cascades - yes you do but not very effectively and you deal no match damage from the destroyed tiles or get AP so go back to your room and think about it Knull.  

In short Knull is not a people person. I argue that Knull is a good utility character in the sense he can do a lot of things....just not great and I don't see future character releases impacting his value.  He is not a support character in my opinion because he doesn't really help other characters at all.  He is a character that needs support from others (looking at you Okoye and Apoc).  I think he is ok and will probably be great for rosters that missed out on iHulk for passive damage purposes but other than that, I don't think he does anything new except for the thorns power, which I don't think will be great.  I may be proven wrong and hypothetically he could significantly alter the meta.

I also feel that Sighclops yellow power is worthy of the prior statement and right now, if you asked me which of two is more likely to have more impact on the meta in the future I am leaning towards Sighclops since I feel the potential for his yellow is still not tapped and future characters may increase his value compared to Knull.

akboyce

I really enjoyed 5Clops, 5Colossus, And Valkyrie in the last PVE. My Cyc is 451, Colossus is 360 (3-2-2), and Valk is 293 (3-5-5). At those levels, with a red boosting support for Cyc, and with the Colossus boost any colossus match or a red cyc match triggered Bounty Hunter draining their AP while giving me 4 yellow. That meant every turn I matched yellow I got another Savior of Mutantkind off and otherwise was firing it every other turn. The match damage got insane VERY fast. I look forward to trying it again once Colossus is at 5 yellow and his match damage is EVEN higher. I just wish there was a visual indicator for Bounty Hunter so I didn't have to check the countdown each turn.

Also slightly off topic but worth mentioning how great Avenger's Tower is for 5Clops. Mine is only 4 stars but that still gives 50% chance to jump start yellow, 50% chance on match to fortify his tiles, protect tiles that pair well with Colossus's damage reduction, and a decent buff to red damage that puts him over the threshold for Valk. I just wish it was 5 star. 50% chance to gain 2 yellow when he fires any power? Gross.

entrailbucket

Knull is also bad.

I'm confused about why this is complicated or worthy of analysis at all.  I have every 5* championed besides Colossus and Scarlet Witch, my Cyclops is lvl455, and there is absolutely no reason I'd ever use him unless I was just screwing around or he was essential.

Sure, boosting match damage is neat, but for 6 yellow you can cast Cyclops's power or for 7 yellow you can cast Okoye's power.  Why would you ever choose Cyclops?

Warbringa

entrailbucket said:

Knull is also bad.

I'm confused about why this is complicated or worthy of analysis at all.  I have every 5* championed besides Colossus and Scarlet Witch, my Cyclops is lvl455, and there is absolutely no reason I'd ever use him unless I was just screwing around or he was essential.

Sure, boosting match damage is neat, but for 6 yellow you can cast Cyclops's power or for 7 yellow you can cast Okoye's power.  Why would you ever choose Cyclops?

I don't think he is a replacement for Okoye by any means but if future characters begin to rely on match damage features to drive a new meta like "if this character deals x damage then this occurs" then it could become much more valuable since you are making matches every turn (think of more Valkyrie like characters but in 5* usefulness etc).  One small upside to him as well is, I believe (haven't tested since I don't have him covered), that his boost sticks around even if he dies?  I think we are only looking at future potential between Sighclops vs. Knull (at least that was what I was trying to address).  Right now he is not great and nowhere close to as useful as Okoye I agree but if a more match damage based meta would appear then that yellow power could become valuable I suppose and possibly more useful than Okoye since she does nothing for match damage.

entrailbucket

Warbringa said:

entrailbucket said:

Knull is also bad.

I'm confused about why this is complicated or worthy of analysis at all.  I have every 5* championed besides Colossus and Scarlet Witch, my Cyclops is lvl455, and there is absolutely no reason I'd ever use him unless I was just screwing around or he was essential.

Sure, boosting match damage is neat, but for 6 yellow you can cast Cyclops's power or for 7 yellow you can cast Okoye's power.  Why would you ever choose Cyclops?

I don't think he is a replacement for Okoye by any means but if future characters begin to rely on match damage features to drive a new meta like "if this character deals x damage then this occurs" then it could become much more valuable since you are making matches every turn (think of more Valkyrie like characters but in 5* usefulness etc).  One small upside to him as well is, I believe (haven't tested since I don't have him covered), that his boost sticks around even if he dies?  I think we are only looking at future potential between Sighclops vs. Knull (at least that was what I was trying to address).  Right now he is not great and nowhere close to as useful as Okoye I agree but if a more match damage based meta would appear then that yellow power could become valuable I suppose and possibly more useful than Okoye since she does nothing for match damage.

Sorry, I'm not calling out anyone here personally, just the current state of the game.

The problem with the MPQ meta is, and has always been, that there's a "best two" and anyone who's not the best two is not worth considering if they're not essentials.

It's actually even worse right now because the best two so completely outclass 95% of their tier, to the point that every new character just gets thrown on the trash heap with Wasp and Starlord, whether or not they have any redeeming qualities.

Given that: Cyclops and Knull are both on the trash heap.

Warbringa

entrailbucket said:

Warbringa said:

entrailbucket said:

Knull is also bad.

I'm confused about why this is complicated or worthy of analysis at all.  I have every 5* championed besides Colossus and Scarlet Witch, my Cyclops is lvl455, and there is absolutely no reason I'd ever use him unless I was just screwing around or he was essential.

Sure, boosting match damage is neat, but for 6 yellow you can cast Cyclops's power or for 7 yellow you can cast Okoye's power.  Why would you ever choose Cyclops?

I don't think he is a replacement for Okoye by any means but if future characters begin to rely on match damage features to drive a new meta like "if this character deals x damage then this occurs" then it could become much more valuable since you are making matches every turn (think of more Valkyrie like characters but in 5* usefulness etc).  One small upside to him as well is, I believe (haven't tested since I don't have him covered), that his boost sticks around even if he dies?  I think we are only looking at future potential between Sighclops vs. Knull (at least that was what I was trying to address).  Right now he is not great and nowhere close to as useful as Okoye I agree but if a more match damage based meta would appear then that yellow power could become valuable I suppose and possibly more useful than Okoye since she does nothing for match damage.

Sorry, I'm not calling out anyone here personally, just the current state of the game.

The problem with the MPQ meta is, and has always been, that there's a "best two" and anyone who's not the best two is not worth considering if they're not essentials.

It's actually even worse right now because the best two so completely outclass 95% of their tier, to the point that every new character just gets thrown on the trash heap with Wasp and Starlord, whether or not they have any redeeming qualities.

Given that: Cyclops and Knull are both on the trash heap.

I agree with the general premise of your analysis. I just need something to do in the meantime, splitting hairs on two bad (or mediocre) characters is what I have left lol.

ThaRoadWarrior

Any character with a power that does some multiple of base damage can benefit from Cyclops's yellow but not Okoye. So for instance if you cast it on Thor (which I would only do in a pick-3 scenario), when he does his 50% health tile break, each of those tiles does whatever damage increase you've allocated X 5 at the beginning of every turn. That was the basis for the Thor/Ghost Rider team I proposed earlier. Similarly combining him with a charge tile spammer means it's base damage X 300% for the tile match plus whatever additional % you've got from Sighclops. So it's not better than Okoye, particularly not in a world where iHulk exists and benefits from wakanda forever, but I won't say it's never going to be useful.