PVP Strategies against 5Witch and Colossus, and Probably Knull's 100k+ health pool

ThaRoadWarrior

Anybody have a good strategy against these teams yet? 5Witch is still getting that New Release boost, so it's hard to know how effective she is really going to be. But in the meantime, I've discovered that Colossus is actually super effective against a lot of the teams I'm used to fielding, so I'm curious if anyone has found a hard counter, or even a medium firmness counter to those iron fortresses of defense reduction yet. 

As an example - 5Witch/Colossus in pick-2 is definitely not worried about a ThorPocalypse assault, and they're definitely proof against ThorKoye. BRB/Polaris could probably do it once 5Witch loses out on the boost, but that is a relatively slow team that is super squishy team to leave out, so I don't really relish having to lean on it.

I'm sure we'll see the usual "skip" advice, but I have a feeling it'll be what we see a ton, so finding an answer would be better in my opinion.

Craig8429

Not sure how much this will help, but I've been playing a lot of 5witch/colossus in lighting rounds to get a better picture of her without the boost. BRB/Kitty and BRB/Apoc teams seem to be the major hitters that are actually pulling wins from me.

Srheer0

I have a feeling Wanda won't be great on defense if the AI doesn't use her pink how we want her to.

I managed to champ cyclops, so I am trying my best to make him work with her and a third. This would require her pink to be used on yellow, so you get more yellow AP for his power and you get a massive board shuffle (1 match per 1 tup AP at level 5 on cyclops yellow instead of 1 per 2).

If you get her repeater protected and the damage boosted by say Apoc yellow, then she becomes a bigger threat. But she is still weak to stuns.

Kitty is likely to be good into Wanda. If you get kitty's red out, you are making free attack tiles each turn her repeater hits you. Don't know if it counts as 1 hit a turn or more if it has more charges. And if you have some protect tiles it helps reduce the damage you take from the repeater.  

I like Collosus kit in general. Very interested to see if D3 can make match damage increase become usable in pvp.
Colossus, Killmonger and a third like AdamWarlock can get you a lot of match damage increases.
My collossus is only at 8 covers or so, and I need to wait 6 odd weeks before I try pulling for more of him

HoundofShadow

I used BRB/Kitty against Wanda before. It works but it's even slower than Polaris/BRB.

In pick 2, I'm thinking Thor and Iceman/Ghostpool because they can stun Wanda. If only I have them champed... 

Yellowjacket could be interesting.

Remember, Wanda will take 100% on the first power, 60% on the second and 20% for the rest, if no damage was dealt to her team at the beginning of your turn.

That's probably why BRB/Apocalypse was beating her. She probably ate BRB's CotW twice (12278x2=24556) while they were collecting black/red/yellow aps.  Also, BRB is churning out at least two protect tiles every turn.

A 450 Apocalypse's SotF will deal:

12886+7731+2577+2577= 25,771 damage to her

That's a total of 50327 damage. A FiF by Apocalypse or CotW would have downed her next turn

For reference, a champed 450 Wanda has 59890 HP.

ThaRoadWarrior

I'm shaping up to have a champable 5Witch before either Cyclops or Colossus...I think I need 3 or 4 more organic pulls of Cyclops assuming another 2-3 features to complete him.

BriMan2222

BRB, polaris, apocalypse worked pretty easily against wanda during this x-men pvp. Just boost blue ap and use polaris stun on Wanda asap.  Then get apoc yellow out so he boosts all of polaris passive damage. 

Tiger_Wong

Srheer0 said:

I have a feeling Wanda won't be great on defense if the AI doesn't use her pink how we want her to.

I managed to champ cyclops, so I am trying my best to make him work with her and a third. This would require her pink to be used on yellow, so you get more yellow AP for his power and you get a massive board shuffle (1 match per 1 tup AP at level 5 on cyclops yellow instead of 1 per 2).

If you get her repeater protected and the damage boosted by say Apoc yellow, then she becomes a bigger threat. But she is still weak to stuns.

Kitty is likely to be good into Wanda. If you get kitty's red out, you are making free attack tiles each turn her repeater hits you. Don't know if it counts as 1 hit a turn or more if it has more charges. And if you have some protect tiles it helps reduce the damage you take from the repeater.  

I like Collosus kit in general. Very interested to see if D3 can make match damage increase become usable in pvp.
Colossus, Killmonger and a third like AdamWarlock can get you a lot of match damage increases.
My collossus is only at 8 covers or so, and I need to wait 6 odd weeks before I try pulling for more of him

You’re actually hitting all around it. 

Cyclops
Collosus
Wanda

is a pretty good team. Scott pumps up Collosus’ match damage while Collosus holds off match damage to everyone. I like them with America Chavez over Wanda because of the match damage havoc they create. It’s very similar to my other match damage team of

Adam Warlock
Onslaught or Black Bolt
America Chavez

entrailbucket

Knull's giant health pool is pretty easily countered by Hulk + Okoye doing 30,000 aoe damage per turn.

Colossus only reduces match damage which isn't really the issue vs Hulk + Okoye.

Scarlet Witch has turned out to be kind of a pushover defensively.  She does slow down Hulk a bit, but you can just wait until a turn when his passive doesn't fire, then bomb her down with his red.

As a 3rd to Hulk + Okoye these characters may become more of an issue, but I tend to just skip those events because they're more trouble than they're worth.

SnowcaTT

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I'm sure we'll see the usual "skip" advice, but I have a feeling it'll be what we see a ton, so finding an answer would be better in my opinion.

You're right, I think we'll see too many of these teams, so skip isn't really an option.

Maybe uninstall is the better option?

SnowcaTT

BriMan2222 said:

BRB, polaris, apocalypse worked pretty easily against wanda during this x-men pvp. Just boost blue ap and use polaris stun on Wanda asap.  Then get apoc yellow out so he boosts all of polaris passive damage. 

It's good to see that iHulk has a counter finally in SW.

Now if only BRB had a counter. Sounds like you can just add SW to the category of "everything" when the question is "what can BRB beat". Hmm.

Polaris stun is a good option. Imagine if we had a decent 5* stun, and problems that could be dealt with. Okoye, iHulk, BRB, SW....wow! A person can dream.

Craig8429

SnowcaTT said:

BriMan2222 said:

BRB, polaris, apocalypse worked pretty easily against wanda during this x-men pvp. Just boost blue ap and use polaris stun on Wanda asap.  Then get apoc yellow out so he boosts all of polaris passive damage. 

It's good to see that iHulk has a counter finally in SW.

Now if only BRB had a counter. Sounds like you can just add SW to the category of "everything" when the question is "what can BRB beat". Hmm.

Polaris stun is a good option. Imagine if we had a decent 5* stun, and problems that could be dealt with. Okoye, iHulk, BRB, SW....wow! A person can dream.

knull should technically be a BRB counter since he voids out the protect tiles. it'll be interesting to see if this actually works.

HoundofShadow

I thought any character that can bypass protect tiles is a counter. For example, Apocalypse.

BriMan2222

SnowcaTT said:

BriMan2222 said:

BRB, polaris, apocalypse worked pretty easily against wanda during this x-men pvp. Just boost blue ap and use polaris stun on Wanda asap.  Then get apoc yellow out so he boosts all of polaris passive damage. 

It's good to see that iHulk has a counter finally in SW.

Now if only BRB had a counter. Sounds like you can just add SW to the category of "everything" when the question is "what can BRB beat". Hmm.

Polaris stun is a good option. Imagine if we had a decent 5* stun, and problems that could be dealt with. Okoye, iHulk, BRB, SW....wow! A person can dream.

Polaris is really the one doing the work against Wanda here.  Brb, apocalypse,  onslaught were much,  much less successful vs Wanda. It's the stun that makes the difference against her. 

HoundofShadow

BRB and Polaris amplify the powers of each other. Without BRB, Polaris won't be able to stun them constantly and consistently. Having to chase 14 or 21 blue aps just by making matches isn't an easy task. By then, the enemy team would have gained enough aps to do some serious damage.

I still think Ghostpool has a lot of potentials. It's weird that only the 5* version doesn't have true heal.

Daredevil217

HoundofShadow said:

I thought any character that can bypass protect tiles is a counter. For example, Apocalypse.

This. And Morbius. 

I’m still working on max-champing Juggs. But once that’s done, I’m switching to Morbius. 

entrailbucket

Don't you immediately take a million hits running unboosted 4* in pvp?  I would think any points you gained by hitting Beta Bill teams with Morbius would be very quickly lost to...literally everyone.

Daredevil217

entrailbucket said:

Don't you immediately take a million hits running unboosted 4* in pvp?  I would think any points you gained by hitting Beta Bill teams with Morbius would be very quickly lost to...literally everyone.

I thought we were talking effective counters, not just effective counters that will deter hits on defense.  If you want counters with no drawbacks, then yes, your options become limited. Even still, just don’t leave them on defense. Win a match with your own BRBitty, Hulkoye, or ApocaSwitch. 

Rock, Paper, Scissors baby. 

entrailbucket

If a counter doesn't deter hits on defense then...it's not a viable counter.

There's any number of infinite/cheese/**** teams you can run on offense that can beat anything, but that are weak defensively.  We don't really need more stuff like that.

Theghouse

After seeing the gameplay videos, Knull is really more of a Carnage type scarecrow.  He's not tough to beat and not super dangerous without a fat damage booster or as a third wheel to Hulkoye in pick 3, but he's slow to play against with his bunch of tile creations and passives and his huge health pool which is the real danger.  He probably won't be very fast to play with either though which will reduce his use outside of float time.

Colossus without Wanda is of course no problem.  Boosted multiple hits or nukes from Apoc, iHulk, BRB chip him and his team down in a hurry.

Wanda with Colossus is an interesting combo of match and power damage reduction.  My ideas are:

Okoye/Apoc & BRB - Chase boost color and blue early, hit Wanda with a boosted BRB blue once a turn until she's gone.  Apoc's extra protects or Okoye's heal help mitigate Colossus' massive match damage and Wanda's repeater every turn.  Apoc extra shields accelerate BRB free AP and Okoye red can target Wanda's repeater.

Apoc/Okoye & Wanda - chase yellow, target red or black with Wanda's purple.  Let your Wanda's double boosted repeater damage take out enemy Wanda.  Once she's out unload your saved up red and/or black to end the match. Bringing your own Wanda will reduce Colossus' match damage and the danger of his nuke since enemy Wanda's repeater will always hit you first.

Wanda without Colossus also invites using your own Colossus:

Apoc/Okoye & Colossus' first beefy match or boosted black nuke hits Wanda with no reduction, and his blue will deal boosted damage and let you burn her repeater to fire multiple powers or trigger a cascade without reduction or retaliation.  Okoye's red also lets you target her repeater.

Srheer0

MeH (Main event hulk)
Wanda
Cyc5ops / Killmonger./ Pr5fX

Use Wandas pink on pink or red. Then use Cyclops yellow with a bunch of TUP in reserve for a big board shuffle to go ontop of MeH's passive shuffling.

Killmonger helps increase certain match damage done, and has strong red and pink nukes.


Ic5man / Pr5fX / Wanda. Very defensive. Annoying to face without a stunner.  

Ic5man / Apoc + Other. Apocs yellows give iceman's green repeaters more damage. And if you use wandas pink on blue, you are almost certain you can match or destroy some blue countdowns every turn in order to stun an enemy and make more blue countdowns the next turn. 

Theghouse

Srheer0 said:

MeH (Main event hulk)
Wanda
Cyc5ops / Killmonger./ Pr5fX

Use Wandas pink on pink or red. Then use Cyclops yellow with a bunch of TUP in reserve for a big board shuffle to go ontop of MeH's passive shuffling.

Killmonger helps increase certain match damage done, and has strong red and pink nukes.


Ic5man / Pr5fX / Wanda. Very defensive. Annoying to face without a stunner.  

Ic5man / Apoc + Other. Apocs yellows give iceman's green repeaters more damage. And if you use wandas pink on blue, you are almost certain you can match or destroy some blue countdowns every turn in order to stun an enemy and make more blue countdowns the next turn. 

These are all terrible options against Wanda.  MEHulk cascade team gets punished by Wanda's repeater.

Same for Iceman teams.  The stuns are not guaranteed and his green does multiple low damage AOE attacks which is the exact opposite of how you need to handle Wanda.