"Test of Talents" Highly Unbalanced?

KeylerKeyler Posts: 25 Just Dropped In
edited 4 May 2021, 02:15 in MtGPQ General Discussion


I've been looking at the new cards a bit and I think there is one support that is clearly unbalanced and could cause a lot of frustration for the players. It's about "Test of Talents". For only 10 mana and with 2 shields (not so easy to break with matches), it prevents the opponent from casting spells (except with cards like "fires of invention" and similars). Taking into account that the most common way to break a support is using spells, I think this card causes a great unbalance into the game, forcing to carry creatures that break supports or something similar in each deck, which not all colors have, and also not all players will have (not everyone has all the cards in the game). Most creature removals are also spells, in this way a player in front of that card can suddenly find himself unable to get rid of the opponent's creatures and also not have a way to eliminate the "Test of Talents".
 In my opinion this card should be rebuilt before launching the new set. I don't know what the oppinion of the rest of the community...

I think something like: Opponent spells cost x more to be casted could be enough

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Comments

  • BongoTheGreyBongoTheGrey Posts: 73 Match Maker
    I think that the fact that it is only a 2 shield support really balances this card. With the amount of gem conversion available in standard destroying 2 shields is really easy. Besides, you already have to pack enough support removal on your decks since FBLTHP made The Prismatic Bridge available to everyone in the game. Will it be an annoying card? Sure, but I don't think it is as OP by itself as other cards.
    You can pair it with Nyx to make it more annoying but we already have a more annoying legacy combo with Insidious Will and we survived
  • KeylerKeyler Posts: 25 Just Dropped In
    Hixus is really a pain when AI cast 2 and appear in a corner where you cant touch it for the rest of the game but at least you can use several spells to destroy it, even spells that remove all from the game, but if you don let cast the cards wich are designed to remove supports, I think will be a real problem for lot of players. Game sttoper cards are always not very funny and in my opinion this one could be annoying, but well I just wrote that post to see the other people opinion.

    BongoTheGrey said:
    I think that the fact that it is only a 2 shield support really balances this card. With the amount of gem conversion available in standard destroying 2 shields is really easy. Besides, you already have to pack enough support removal on your decks since FBLTHP made The Prismatic Bridge available to everyone in the game. Will it be an annoying card? Sure, but I don't think it is as OP by itself as other cards.
    You can pair it with Nyx to make it more annoying but we already have a more annoying legacy combo with Insidious Will and we survived

  • BilBil Posts: 796 Critical Contributor
    edited 4 May 2021, 06:01
       Considering the main option to destroy a support IS casting a spell ... This card clearly has a risky design. Besides, the 2 shields argument IS far from being convicing because it IS really common to have several copies of the same cards in hand and this support will quickly end with 3-4 Shields. And that's only 10 mana to Make an oponent unable to destroy creatures and supports.

      Honestly, this support should be a 1shield support like hixus to get close to a balance.
     
  • PanneoPanneo Posts: 18 Just Dropped In
    edited 4 May 2021, 07:59
    Yes, that is extremely dangerous, it quickly sucks all the fun out of the game when it is played. Very frustrating, it feels unfair when you not only get a problem with this, but also your solutions, which took at least one of your 10 valuable slots, that you have taken in precisely for such problems, are immediately made useless too.


  • TremayneTremayne Posts: 1,256 Chairperson of the Boards
    As I see it, this card has the potential to be a showstopper in some matches. 

    I’m not sure if ToT can combo with other cards, making it a total lockdown effect. It does limit the cards which the casting mono-PW can use, since to many gem converters will most likely pop this support before long.

    However, casting ToT with a dual-PW could be a bigger nuisance, since the caster can focus on the secondary colors, to generate mana without risking ToT to much.
    (FYI - I’m assuming that ToT will mainly be placed on a blue gem, not sure that is actually valid)
  • XucachrisXucachris Posts: 154 Tile Toppler
    Keyler said:
    Hixus is really a pain when AI cast 2 and appear in a corner where you cant touch it for the rest of the game but at least you can use several spells to destroy it, even spells that remove all from the game, but if you don let cast the cards wich are designed to remove supports, I think will be a real problem for lot of players. Game sttoper cards are always not very funny and in my opinion this one could be annoying, but well I just wrote that post to see the other people opinion.
    Exactly this. Hixus is annoying, but at least it's a challenge to be overcome through various means and with only one shield can often be popped quite quickly. Insidious Will is easily dealt with by playing any card - boom, its gone (along with your card). ToT looks hugely overpowered compared to those two cards, and one that will unbalance the game.

    I'd like to see it have one shield, or lose a shield each turn so it's time limited.
  • BilBil Posts: 796 Critical Contributor
    And that's without even considering the combos ToT + starfield or ToT + hall of heliod .

    Devs must consider changing this card before releasing it, and before it gets an impact on players fun and events outcome.
  • ZethishZethish Posts: 41 Just Dropped In
    edited 4 May 2021, 11:16
    If it functions exactly as the text says, this card could absolutely hose most decks and PWs.

    ToT will often not be alone on the board. The player casting ToT will likely have 3-5 other supports in play. In which case, a single target removal (from a creature, support or PW ability) will likely not even solve the issue. In many board states, you need a broader catch-all effect like Ruinous Ultimatum to get rid of the dangerous supports. Well, with ToT out, those options are gone.

    Kinda have to play Teferi, Hero of Dominaria in this meta to have a chance of removing ToT (although, I already do... :) )
  • AvahadAvahad Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    Well.... we could all play Cyclone Summoner.
    If they haven’t fixed it tho we would all crash each other’s games.
    If they have fixed it then it’s an answer. But it means playing Blue.
    (Another uptick for Tefari)
  • jtwoodjtwood Posts: 950 Critical Contributor
    edited 4 May 2021, 14:30
    This didn’t break the game, and Nyx was around
  • BongoTheGreyBongoTheGrey Posts: 73 Match Maker
    Thank you JTWood! Exactly my point!! We have had worse cards than Test of Talents and we have survived. We are going to be just fine with Test of Talents just like it is
  • BongoTheGreyBongoTheGrey Posts: 73 Match Maker
    Test of Talents only prevents your spells from gaining mana but if you already had a fully charged spell in your hand you can cast it. Sphinx's Decree prevent you from casting them at all.
    So if Sphinx's Decree enters the board you cannot destroy it with spells at all. If Test of Talents enters you can easily destroy it with a spell if it was fully charged before
  • jtwoodjtwood Posts: 950 Critical Contributor
    Bil said:
       Considering the main option to destroy a support IS casting a spell ... This card clearly has a risky design. Besides, the 2 shields argument IS far from being convicing because it IS really common to have several copies of the same cards in hand and this support will quickly end with 3-4 Shields. And that's only 10 mana to Make an oponent unable to destroy creatures and supports.

      Honestly, this support should be a 1shield support like hixus to get close to a balance.
     
    Conclave Naturalists, Kogla, Sarulf, Gemrazer, Sawtusk Demolisher, Rambunctious Mutt, Mold Shambler, Binding of the Old Gods, Ugin VG, Krond the Dawn-Clad...
    I feel like there are multiple, non-spell options already available across multiple rarities (bolded cards are ones I use regularly). My gut right now is that Test of Talents will only make this game more enjoyable by getting us out of our comfort zone of always using Ruinous + Demolish.

  • jtwoodjtwood Posts: 950 Critical Contributor
    I have to giggle, because this is yet another very strong card that could factor into Legacy... except Omni just runs right over this thing and laughs the whole time. There is still no control option that is good against both Omni-effects and gem conversion effects. Combo still rules.
  • XucachrisXucachris Posts: 154 Tile Toppler
    Sphinx's Decree = One shield = *pop*. ToT looks overpowered with 2 shields. Going to make blue a gnarly opponent.
  • ambrosio191ambrosio191 Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    jtwood said:
    This didn’t break the game, and Nyx was around

    Just to be snarky, but Sphinx's Decree did break the game.  There was a time where if any player played it the game instantly softlocked.  It took a month or two to get fixed.  Since it was a uncommon with a useful ability tons of people ran it, not knowing it was freezing games.  Some people ran it anyways just to troll anyone facing their deck, as Greg didnt know not to play it, but the player did.
    Also a quick search shows that people said the same thing when it was released.  The card shouldnt exist as it was too powerful for it's rarity, plus it was hard to get rid of.
  • BongoTheGreyBongoTheGrey Posts: 73 Match Maker
    And we still survived it. People were mad about it yet it wasn't as problematic as they thought. It wasn't banned or reworked. It froze the game but that's a whole other thing. Once it was fixed it wasn't a problem
  • madwrenmadwren Posts: 2,092 Chairperson of the Boards
    Maybe it's time for Dismantling Wave to shine. 
  • AvahadAvahad Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    edited 4 May 2021, 20:05
    Test of Talents only prevents your spells from gaining mana but if you already had a fully charged spell in your hand you can cast it. Sphinx's Decree prevent you from casting them at all.
    So if Sphinx's Decree enters the board you cannot destroy it with spells at all. If Test of Talents enters you can easily destroy it with a spell if it was fully charged before
    As long as the destruction spell is not the first spell in your hand.
  • BilBil Posts: 796 Critical Contributor
    jtwood said:
    This didn’t break the game, and Nyx was around
    Definitely right, but the 1 Shield made a HUGE diference back then.
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