Nerf Omniscience

Soycarlovic

I don't understand why this card has not been nerfed yet.
It is an one turn insta win
there is no way to interact with it
it doesn't matter how well you built your deck or how well you are playing, there is nothing you can do to win, once it has landed
other less problematic cards have already been nerfed ages ago.

Please!
nerf it.

Mburn7

That's not strictly true, I have won plenty of matches after my opponent dropped an Omni, and I have lost one or two as well.  There is some luck in getting all your fetches in order, and the AI is absolutely terrible at it.

That being said, a nerf would definitely not be a bad thing.  Omni has been dominating the game for years now.

jtwood

Soycarlovic said:

I don't understand why this card has not been nerfed yet.
It is an one turn insta win
there is no way to interact with it
it doesn't matter how well you built your deck or how well you are playing, there is nothing you can do to win, once it has landed
other less problematic cards have already been nerfed ages ago.

Please!
nerf it.

If Omni were the only problem card in legacy, we would have options to deal with it. The problem with Omni is the lack of ubiquitous answers. Cards that punish decks for not casting spells (i.e. Omni) get wrecked by decks that cast cards (i.e. Zenith), and vice versa.

As a result, it's very, very hard to build a responsive (read:control) deck that can win out in the meta. You're left with having to fight fire with fire and playing your own combo-rific deck that tries to win faster than the other win-fast combos. For example, my favorite answer to Combustible Gearhulk is Razia. And Razia combos with Summoner's Pact, so you can build a combo-control deck that beats one of the one-shot decks in Legacy while also giving you a win combo. But it's not a pure control deck. It's still a combo deck with the ability to play control against a single deck.

In my head, Legacy MTGPQ is synonymous with "Combo Winter" in paper... but it's "Combo Year Round" in MTGPQ.

Persil

Omni is overpowered, sadly they're won't do anything about it.

On the other hand, I found that often I don't put Omni in my decks, instead relying on heavy mana converters (e.g. Urza + combos). Omni's drawback is that, once it is destroyed, all your cards lose mana - even if they got it the "traditional" way, they will be drawn to zero.

I often build decks which convert 10-20 gems every round, gigin tons of mana. With such builds, Omni actually doesn't work, except maybe for initial few rounds - which is no enough.

So, to sum up: Omni is extremely annoying and overpowered when playing againts, but at the same time, there are better decks which don't need Omni.

Magic:PQ Support Team

Hello guys, sorry for the delay.

Thank you for writing this suggestion, I really appreciate it!
I'll pass it on to the team so we can discuss the possibilities.

Thank you for your interest,
Rebeca

TIMEWARP

I personally feel there are a lot of ways to combat Omni, and other cards like it. Is it powerful, sure. Is it unbeatable? Heck no. 

If you stumble into TotP with your standard "play some creature, deal some damage" deck, you will likely get got. Build your deck expecting cards like omni, green hour, bsz, plague wind etc.

Persil

TIMEWARP said:

I personally feel there are a lot of ways to combat Omni, and other cards like it.

Not entirely sure what do you mean - how do you want to combat Omni, when the game is over?

The problem with Omni is not that it's a strong card which you can then try to counterpart. The thing is, casting it will often result in player winning the game in the very same round.

This game has serious issues with balance. There are lots of decks which can win the game in two rounds on average (sometimes longer, sometimes quicker). I personally have such decks. Should the game be like this? Shoud it really be "who gets the first cascade or OP card, insta wins"?

Sadly, it feels the devs not only don't want to solve this issue, they actually make more and more broken cards. As if they thought that breaking the balance is the only way they can make money. I believe it may be the other way round - as it turns more and more players away.

TIMEWARP

Persil said:

TIMEWARP said:

I personally feel there are a lot of ways to combat Omni, and other cards like it.

Not entirely sure what do you mean - how do you want to combat Omni, when the game is over?

The problem with Omni is not that it's a strong card which you can then try to counterpart. The thing is, casting it will often result in player winning the game in the very same round

White has a ton of "rules setting" spells, support and creatures. Putting these in your deck will prevent anything an omni deck wants to do. F.i. Lavinia, Rule of Law, Leylines, Archon, eidolon, etc.) . Blue can play Insidious Will.

Black has discard. No hand, no Omni.

Green/Blue can race combo decks, and try to go off sooner than OmniHulk or OmniSpells.

My point is; its a puzzle game. Solve the puzzle. Granted; it is hard, but not undoable. And variance is a big part, but that's the nature of the game. 11 mana (whir of invention) can mean game over in Legacy. That is more of an MTGPQ problem than a specific card problem. 

jtwood

TIMEWARP said:

Persil said:

TIMEWARP said:

I personally feel there are a lot of ways to combat Omni, and other cards like it.

Not entirely sure what do you mean - how do you want to combat Omni, when the game is over?

The problem with Omni is not that it's a strong card which you can then try to counterpart. The thing is, casting it will often result in player winning the game in the very same round

White has a ton of "rules setting" spells, support and creatures. Putting these in your deck will prevent anything an omni deck wants to do. F.i. Lavinia, Rule of Law, Leylines, Archon, eidolon, etc.) . Blue can play Insidious Will.

Black has discard. No hand, no Omni.

Green/Blue can race combo decks, and try to go off sooner than OmniHulk or OmniSpells.

My point is; its a puzzle game. Solve the puzzle. Granted; it is hard, but not undoable. And variance is a big part, but that's the nature of the game. 11 mana (whir of invention) can mean game over in Legacy. That is more of an MTGPQ problem than a specific card problem. 

Razia lets the Omnihulk deck kill itself

Mburn7

TIMEWARP said:

Persil said:

TIMEWARP said:

I personally feel there are a lot of ways to combat Omni, and other cards like it.

Not entirely sure what do you mean - how do you want to combat Omni, when the game is over?

The problem with Omni is not that it's a strong card which you can then try to counterpart. The thing is, casting it will often result in player winning the game in the very same round

White has a ton of "rules setting" spells, support and creatures. Putting these in your deck will prevent anything an omni deck wants to do. F.i. Lavinia, Rule of Law, Leylines, Archon, eidolon, etc.) . Blue can play Insidious Will.

Black has discard. No hand, no Omni.

Green/Blue can race combo decks, and try to go off sooner than OmniHulk or OmniSpells.

My point is; its a puzzle game. Solve the puzzle. Granted; it is hard, but not undoable. And variance is a big part, but that's the nature of the game. 11 mana (whir of invention) can mean game over in Legacy. That is more of an MTGPQ problem than a specific card problem. 

Any spell that permanently increases the cost of cards in your opponents hand works too.

Overwhelming Splendor is a great (but expensive) example in white, but there are others too.  Even increasing costs by 1 stops Omni dead in its tracks

Persil

TIMEWARP said:

White has a ton of "rules setting" spells, support and creatures. Putting these in your deck will prevent anything an omni deck wants to do. F.i. Lavinia, Rule of Law, Leylines, Archon, eidolon, etc.) . Blue can play Insidious Will.

Black has discard. No hand, no Omni.

Green/Blue can race combo decks, and try to go off sooner than OmniHulk or OmniSpells.

My point is; its a puzzle game. Solve the puzzle. Granted; it is hard, but not undoable. And variance is a big part, but that's the nature of the game. 11 mana (whir of invention) can mean game over in Legacy. That is more of an MTGPQ problem than a specific card problem. 

I think we agree here. Clearly there are cards which counter Omni. The issue is the randomness. There are many games where the player has no good matches while the enemy gets a cascade in its 1st or 2nd round, casts Omni immediately and the game is done before the player can cast (or even draw) the proper counters.

The nature of the game (random board, random gem falls etc.) is the problem, however creating broken cards makes it even worse imho.

Endbringer

Stop worrying about nerfing one of the best, most favorite cards in the game for years, beating you, and focus on building decks that you'll win with on your first turn. If we nerfed every powerful card nobody would play or pay.

Persil

Endbringer said:

Stop worrying about nerfing one of the best, most favorite cards in the game for years, beating you, and focus on building decks that you'll win with on your first turn. If we nerfed every powerful card nobody would play or pay.

I don't agree. You may have the very best deck in the game, but if in your 1st round you get no mana (because of bad board setting), then you are done. And yes, if you play enough games, you'll regularly encounter such cases.

That's one of the reasons why people ask for changes. This game is way too random, and cards like Omni make it even more.

andrewvanmarle

Persil, luck IS a part of this game.  I've lost games being mana starved with a good deck, not pulling lands, and only having -2 matches. That happens.

Count how many games you win against how many you lose. 

It should actually be 50/50 (depending on card collection ) but most often it's closer to 90/10 (or more)

sometimes you just lose, it happens.

And if you het caught in a loop, just concede......

Persil

Luck is part of the game, however it should be about minimizing luck impact - where it's possible. Otherwise you get frustrated players.

Especially in a game where loosing one game, or even one objective, often puts you hundred or more positions down the rank.

jobob

At least it’s legacy.

IMO, it’s nowhere near as bad as Wizard Class. Nerf that ****, forget Omni.

Soycarlovic

jobob said:

At least it’s legacy.

IMO, it’s nowhere near as bad as Wizard Class. Nerf that ****, forget Omni.

True that. I had to grind to craft test of talents to even have a chance against those decks.

Youzerfriendly

Omniscience and Wizard Class should both be nerfed. personally, I'm in favor of a Greg card per turn limit. Greg gets 6 cards per turn; done. All issues solved.

IDC what the solution is, but these loops make the game no fun. And the system in place to stop them is GARBAGE.

DabeDotCom

Youzerfriendly said:

personally, I'm in favor of a Greg card per turn limit. Greg gets 6 cards per turn; done. All issues solved.  IDC what the solution is, but these loops make the game no fun.

It would be an improvement, IMHO, if they just stuck to the original MtG rules:

1. 100.2a Each player's library may contain "...no more than four (4)with a particular English name..." [emphasis mine] — which includes standard artwork vs. exclusive content, etc.; and
   
   
2. 104.3c "If a player is required to draw more cards than are left in their library, they draw the
   remaining cards and then lose the game the next time a player would receive priority."

Obviously when you're playing against an opponent with 500+ life, e.g., you'll need more than 40 cards total, but #1 should prevent loops from spiraling out of control.  (They could still *START*, but ought to fizzle themselves out, eventually...)

And #2 only affects the word "Draw" — not "Fetch" or "Summon", etc. — though if you've already fetched the same card four times this turn, subsequent effects are nullified.  (Like "Fetch the first card with Landforming" when you don't HAVE any cards with Landforming, for example.)

_Valiant_

Disagree, please don't touch Omniscience!