The Treadmill Dilemma

pheregas
pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
in MPQ General Discussion
Good day fellow forumites and players:

With the recent UI change covered extensively in another thread it occurred to me that we, as players, may have little recourse in showing our dissent regarding UI/Gameplay/imbalances due to the "Treadmill Dilemma" (coined by me).

What is the Treadmill Dilemma?

Well, the devs have made it abundantly clear that there will be a 4/5/4/5 release schedule (for the most part) and this will occur every two weeks, regardless of real life events, holidays, or potential user burnout.  I am sure there are internal metrics to support this release schedule sustainability.  I'm not here to debate that.

What I am here to illustrate is that due to the relentless release schedule, HP/Iso must be earned to keep up.  Especially once you get into the tragic 300+ roster slot club.  There are only two ways to gain the required HP/Iso, 1) Play or 2) Buy.

In most business lines, if one is unsatisfied with a product, one can simply boycott the product.  But this game (and I am sure other mobile games) have the Treadmill Dilemma built in.  In order to keep up with releases, players are forced to put in a minimum amount of effort in either PVE (progression) or PVP (desired target wins/points.)  If a player does not wish to perform at these levels, they suffer the loss of in-game resources/progression.  Of course, one can purchase these resources to catch up.

The problem, however, is that the normal forms of dissent, ie. boycott in the forms of reduced spending or engagement, is seriously problematic, since the act of boycott actively hurts the player in the long run.  If one cannot earn the HP/iso to roster/level new characters, then they cannot compete as fully (or even participate) in future events, which only exacerbates the problem.

This has the unfortunate consequence that even as players become more and more dissatisfied, in-game metrics may not change.  In-game purchases may reduce, but are almost guaranteed to not stop.  Other than dissenting on the forums (which can be verified have no community manager, nor any sort of meaningful nor reliable dev interaction), the only other avenue left available is to lower ones review of the game.  However, while this does negatively impact the game, one can only have one review.  If my dissatisfaction moves me to lower my review to one-star, I cannot lower it any more.  I can only keep it at one-star indefinitely.  There is no further voice for dissent (or at least not one meaningful enough to enter any sort of metric analysis).

For instance, I stopped spending long ago.  I lowered my review.  Other than scream into the wind on the forum, my only real option is to just uninstall the game.  It's an all-or-nothing nuclear option.  There is no middle ground.  Unless I am off base.  Unless there is something I am not thinking about (which I admit, may be).

All because of the release schedule.  All because catching up is harder than maintaining.  All because of the Treadmill.

So I ask you, fellow players, what actions we as a community have that do not involve the nuclear option?  Because I do sincerely love the game, but I do not love what it is becoming.

Thank you for your time.

Pheregas

Comments

  • Scofie
    Scofie GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,368 Chairperson of the Boards
    I never really played PvP and PvE is enough for me. Used to aim for T100 on SCL10 but that's almost impossible now so just do a much as I feel like and stop with a minimum of progression, normally at T200. I pull as I go.

    I haven't really had a situation where I've not had the required 4* or 5* for more than the 1st day of an event so play isn't impacted at all. 

    The only race on a treadmill is against yourself. 
  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    Another point of issue along these lines is where a person is at in the game.
    I have heard some newer players say things along of the lines that they will will focus and hoard tokens to target certain 4s and 5s. Because they know they will it will take a couple years to get them all given the amount currently on the table and the release schedule.

  • supergarv
    supergarv Posts: 410 Mover and Shaker
    This is not a dilemma, this is their business model.
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    I was thinking the treadmill was so once you reached a certain category, say as a four star player, you can consistently champ new characters while pushing to the next category. I don't know if that is true once you get to five star play. The release schedule is designed to create a urgency to help ensure you play the game over real life. 
  • fractalvisions
    fractalvisions Posts: 313 Mover and Shaker
    I took a 3 year break from the game. I came back. Sure, it felt like there was a lot of catching up to do and still does. Does it matter though? Sure I may have to skip some nodes when I don't have the required character, but I don't feel that that necessarily hinders my enjoyment of the game. There's always the option to play for the sake of playing and not get too obsessed with having every new character as soon as it is added.
  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 583 Critical Contributor
    Release schedule does not bother me.  And I don't often spend money on the game anyways so that type of boycott would be meaningless. 
  • SilverAgeFan
    SilverAgeFan Posts: 5 Just Dropped In
    There is the other side of this, which is where I am at since I physically cannot play the with the new UI since it triggers debilitating migraines (which I was able to manage prior to this for over a decade).

    Once one falls behind enough on that treadmill (and I had been keeping up with it heartily in my first year of play, enjoying it most days, resenting it occasionally), they are likely to feel as I do now which is open resentment towards the game and its structure. At a certain point, customers like myself, who otherwise had a lot of years of interest left, will step off that treadmill entirely (as I'm being forced to do now). Every day that goes by I can't play and I feel myself getting behind, I am less likely to come back.

    I can guarantee that if this isn't reverted or fixed within a week, the spell will be broken for me. I'm probably not the only one.

    You know what though, I'm warming to the idea of getting those hours of each day back and not having to check the clock and log 50 minutes of puzzle time in order to keep up with each event.
  • killahKlown
    killahKlown Posts: 583 Critical Contributor
    SilverAgeFan said:
    There is the other side of this, which is where I am at since I physically cannot play the with the new UI since it triggers debilitating migraines (which I was able to manage prior to this for over a decade).

    Once one falls behind enough on that treadmill (and I had been keeping up with it heartily in my first year of play, enjoying it most days, resenting it occasionally), they are likely to feel as I do now which is open resentment towards the game and its structure. At a certain point, customers like myself, who otherwise had a lot of years of interest left, will step off that treadmill entirely (as I'm being forced to do now). Every day that goes by I can't play and I feel myself getting behind, I am less likely to come back.

    I can guarantee that if this isn't reverted or fixed within a week, the spell will be broken for me. I'm probably not the only one.

    You know what though, I'm warming to the idea of getting those hours of each day back and not having to check the clock and log 50 minutes of puzzle time in order to keep up with each event.
    You don't HAVE check or log any time.  It is a game, play at your leisure.
  • pheregas
    pheregas Posts: 1,721 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've seen several responses now.  But all of them seem to be completely missing the original point of my post.  Of course I choose to play the way I have, because the way I play keeps me safe on my treadmill.  I keep up with all releases, champ all 5s before they leave latest (or very near afterwards), and can roster every 4*.  I don't go crazy anymore trying to fully cover a 4* at release.  They'll get there on their own after they are featured next.    BUT NONE OF THAT WAS THE POINT.

    The point was regarding avenues of voicing displeasure with the game in a meaningful way.  If I opt not to play, then I fall behind.  It means more work down the road and further delays.  Targeting 4*s for shards that will directly payout Legendary Tokens is a method towards keeping up.  I'm not looking to get 550s.  I'm looking to champ everyone.  And my technique is solid.  That is not in dispute.  And while decreasing play now would only increase play later (like playing up in CLs instead of down), on a long enough timeline, that metric balances and is most likely of zero use to the playing metric-bean counters.

    Other than ceasing to financially support the game, there is no avenue of show metric data (ie playing less) that doesn't harm my progress.  And I already stopped financially supporting the game, so what does that leave?

    So, to re-post my previous question, What avenues of showing dissent will actually make the devs take notice that won't actively harm me (and others like me) as players trying to keep up while the devs sort their (expletive) out?
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    There is really nothing anyone can do. No matter how much feedback we give, surveys we fill out and what not, the Devs will continue to do what they do. They always know better than us.

    The only sure way to get there attention is to stop paying and stop playing.
  • supergarv
    supergarv Posts: 410 Mover and Shaker
    SilverAgeFan said:
    There is the other side of this, which is where I am at since I physically cannot play the with the new UI since it triggers debilitating migraines (which I was able to manage prior to this for over a decade).

    Once one falls behind enough on that treadmill (and I had been keeping up with it heartily in my first year of play, enjoying it most days, resenting it occasionally), they are likely to feel as I do now which is open resentment towards the game and its structure. At a certain point, customers like myself, who otherwise had a lot of years of interest left, will step off that treadmill entirely (as I'm being forced to do now). Every day that goes by I can't play and I feel myself getting behind, I am less likely to come back.

    I can guarantee that if this isn't reverted or fixed within a week, the spell will be broken for me. I'm probably not the only one.

    You know what though, I'm warming to the idea of getting those hours of each day back and not having to check the clock and log 50 minutes of puzzle time in order to keep up with each event.
    I just thought you might be the proof that clones exist. Could‘ve written the same. I have not played the game now for nearly 48bours. Haven‘t done that for about 1900 days that I played consecutively.

    I am already feeling more at peace getting off the treadmill. If they revert, hell, I might even be able to stay away from the addiction this game is perfect at.

    +1!!!
  • Michael1957
    Michael1957 Posts: 630 Critical Contributor
    I’ve never had that dilemma in any facet of life , I’ve kept my options extremely simple and foolproof.
    1 . Quit it
    2. Kill it 
    When something tips the balance to be more trouble than it’s worth , there are only 2 surefire solutions .  There’s plenty of options in life and it’s too short to waste any of it being dissatisfied or complaining. 
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm ok with the release schedule but I would like to see them reform how hp is made. I would get rid of the 2k hp cost at 300 roster slots, raise the amount of hp that you can win from placement rewards and give people more things to buy with hp. They could also do a special daily offer for rare items like covers for limited characters, costumes, cover art as well as discounted shards for a 5* character.
  • LavaManLee
    LavaManLee Posts: 1,434 Chairperson of the Boards
    shardwick said:
    . They could also do a special daily offer for rare items like covers for limited characters, costumes, cover art as well as discounted shards for a 5* character.
    This is a great point.  They have completely dropped the ball on micro-transactions that matter.  They either have garbage for sale most of the time or it's good but it costs $75USD.

    They need to do better at monetizing in smaller amounts and transactions.
  • Akoni
    Akoni Posts: 790 Critical Contributor
    @pheregas I think I understand what you are referring to. Treadmills have a set pace and you have to keep up or fall off. The game has a pace at which the player must put in so much effort, otherwise they fall off. However, like a real treadmill, there is the option of slowing the treadmill down by changing your goal or play style. The game was developed with collecting as the primary strategy because it is most profitable for the dev team as alluded to by @supergarv

    There is, however, room for players to utilize other play styles. Some have slowed the treadmill way down to focus only on characters they really want. This might mean that they will only play a lot for short bursts. The rest of the time, they're just walking or casually jogging on the treadmill to hoard resources. Some people jump off of the treadmill causing them to miss out, but make up for it by spending money to sprint back to the top.

    Your goal or play style will determine how you use the treadmill, but the treadmill never goes away. If it did, the gym would close and there would be no game.
  • Wyntre
    Wyntre Posts: 49 Just Dropped In
    The only meaningful way I know to express displeasure other than stopping with the play and stopping with the money is to write negative reviews on Apple/Google.  Anything else is screaming into the wind.
  • Srheer0
    Srheer0 Posts: 510 Critical Contributor
    As a whole, I like the game. Acquiring 4s and 5s can be done without spending anything, which is rare in a F2p or a live service game.  

    There are things I don't like about the game. How opponents are shown to you in pvp, how you can still be hit through a shield if you get unlucky. And how after an update they ask if you would like to leave a review.  

    My review was 3 or 4 stars when I started playing 37 months ago. And every time they requested that I leave a review, it got lowered. Petty I know, but until the points I put forward in it get addressed, it is staying at that score.  

    I'm also not a fan of how they are valuing LL pulls in the big "deals". Sometimes it's valued at ~£5 a token. sometimes £7 a token. I understand why they monetise in that way. It just sends bad signals to the lower spend players.
  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:

    There are plenty of options but only 2 of them? I wouldn't want to a pet of yours that needs a trip to the vets...
    Waking up in the morning must be a nightmare with those as your only options. 

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