A quiz: How not to Maintenance!

Persil
Persil Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
edited February 2021 in MtGPQ General Discussion
So we have an important, ranked event (The Colossal Tussle) where loosing a single game causes you to drop from Tier 1 to Tier 200. New nodes are released only once, on Tuesday 11:30 UTC.

You are a developer who needs to make maintanance on the same day. A quiz: What time do you choose to start it?

A ) Before 11:30 UTC.

B ) Just after 11:30 UTC so that some people will already start playing ranked games and you can say "f*ck you" and turn the app off when they're playing, causing them to drop to Rank 200 and hate the app and you even more, making some of them extremely angry, and some to look for other Match-3 games where devs respect players time and money.

Guess which of these two did D3 choose?
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Comments

  • jtwood
    jtwood Posts: 1,285 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2021
    Overall, their maintenance system is a total process. I've never played a game that just shuts down without any warning.
    But, to their credit, they did announce this days in advance.
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
    edited February 2021
    jtwood said:
    Overall, their maintenance system is a total process. I've never played a game that just shuts down without any warning.
    But, to their credit, they did announce this days in advance.
    But they could totally schedule a non-ranked event ... Instead of provoking tons of frustration among players, and tons of mails to deal with for customer support.

    They could Also use a feature that would display the maintenance start on the home screen ... Let's Say ... 30 minutes or 1 hour before it starts.
  • Tremayne
    Tremayne Posts: 1,673 Chairperson of the Boards
    I forgot the start time, so I lost a match.

    cant fault the devs for my oversight. I do think the planned event is amateurishly executed.
  • Persil
    Persil Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
    edited February 2021
    Agreed with Bil. Sure, the devs told us about maintanance - in a message somewhere there (not everybody reads them), some time ago (many people won't remember). This is a way of doing things just to be able to check that they are done, regardless of if they are done with sense.

    IMPORTANT UPDATE:

    Apparently, after keeping the app on for 3 hours, the maintanance message closed and... I was able to continue the game. I got the points and I didn't even have to restart the app, nor there wass any update in Play Store. Now imagine that many players just shut their games as they were not able to wait three hours. What a *****y update.
  • BongoTheGrey
    BongoTheGrey Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    IMPORTANT UPDATE:
    Apparently, after keeping the app on for 3 hours, the maintanance message closed and... I was able to continue the game. I got the points and I didn't even have to restart the app, nor there wass any update in Play Store. Now imagine that many players just shut their games as they were not able to wait three hours. What a *****y update.

    Maybe because they never said that this was an update, just a server maintenance
  • Tremayne
    Tremayne Posts: 1,673 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2021
    @persil - great to hear. My iPad restarted the game even though I didn’t use it while the maintenance period ran so consider yourself blessed.

    Win the 1st place for us unlucky few.
  • Barnabes
    Barnabes Posts: 76 Match Maker
    I must be too old, because when I see someone complain that the devs aren’t holding their hand 24/7 to make sure they are having an optimal time, I can only roll my eyes. 

    It’s an event with almost 24 hours to do your matches, so no real rush to start early for fear of losing recharges. AND they announced the maintenance repeatedly far in advance (I didn’t read the announcement is an excuse, not a valid reason). AND the game continues running after maintenance is over (unless your device shuts it down for some reason, presumably processing power). 
    All you angry birds should take a lesson from Trenayne and just accept that you goofed. Happens to the best of us. If you are that set on perfect performance and top rewards, pay attention to what’s going on. Don’t go on autopilot then complain you got blindsided. 
  • jtwood
    jtwood Posts: 1,285 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2021
    Barnabes said:
    I must be too old, because when I see someone complain that the devs aren’t holding their hand 24/7 to make sure they are having an optimal time, I can only roll my eyes. 

    It’s an event with almost 24 hours to do your matches, so no real rush to start early for fear of losing recharges. AND they announced the maintenance repeatedly far in advance (I didn’t read the announcement is an excuse, not a valid reason). AND the game continues running after maintenance is over (unless your device shuts it down for some reason, presumably processing power). 
    All you angry birds should take a lesson from Trenayne and just accept that you goofed. Happens to the best of us. If you are that set on perfect performance and top rewards, pay attention to what’s going on. Don’t go on autopilot then complain you got blindsided. 
    Just for comparison, when I played Magic Online, they would prevent starting matches X minutes before a maintenance break. And they would flash a warning before it happened, too. In this game, they post a note in the news section and expect you to remember it days later (potentially). Then, if you're playing and they shut it off, blamo... You're potentially out points in an event with very strong, individual rewards.
    It's not asking for hand holding. It's asking for similar treatment as other applications that cut into real-time play when shutting down. It's also asking that they not schedule maintenance during such a high-value event, seeing how it risks a feelbad.
    EDIT: I say this as someone who was about to start playing TCT but put it off for a bit only to come back and realize maintenance had started. I knew it was coming. I read the notifications. I still forgot - partly because I don't convert UTC to my time zone automatically when reading announcements. Basically, I'm lucky I didn't walk into a costly mistake.
  • Barnabes
    Barnabes Posts: 76 Match Maker
    edited February 2021
    MODO requires a live opponent (or opponents) which makes maintenance interruptions significantly more disruptive, as it will likely be impossible to resume after a lengthy break. It also involves a very high number of paid events (which for most people are paid with real money).
    In the case of MTGPQ you can resume the game as soon as maintenance is over and even if the event is a “paid” event one loss does not prevent you from recouping far more than the original investment in terms of progression rewards. 
    So the comparison seems to fall a bit flat, and that’s before we compare the sheer scale, complexity, time and money investment differences. 

    We can come up with any number of ways to remind people and still have any number of people fail to realize what is going on. To me, educating people to pay attention is more important than saving them from themselves and reinforcing their tendency to blame others for mistakes. 

    *edited for spelling 
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
    The fact that players could have avoided a point loss by themselves doesn't change anything to the other fact that maintenances could Also be handled in a better way.

    If there's noone to point out the limits of a system there's very small chance for this system to ever get improved.
  • jtwood
    jtwood Posts: 1,285 Chairperson of the Boards
    Barnabes said:
    MODO requires a live opponent (or opponents) which makes maintenance interruptions significantly more disruptive, as it will likely be impossible to resume after a lengthy break. It also involves a very high number of paid events (which for most people are paid with real money).
    In the case of MTGPQ you can resume the game as soon as maintenance is over and even if the event is a “paid” event one loss does not prevent you from recouping far more than the original investment in terms of progression rewards. 
    So the comparison seems to fall a bit flat, and that’s before we compare the sheer scale, complexity, time and money investment differences. 

    We can come up with any number of ways to remind people and still have any number of people fail to realize what is going on. To me, educating people to pay attention is more important than saving them from themselves and reinforcing their tendency to blame others for mistakes. 

    *edited for spelling 

    I won't philosophically disagree with you. Oktagon put notifications out there. They did more than the minimum. It's certainly on users to do some of their part. But their moral high ground won't stop people from feeling bad about the experience.
    I don't know if you ever listened to MaRo's podcasts on game design, but they are an amazing source of insight into the art. And the number one lesson I took away from his commentary was that making a game and making a fun game are very separate. This game's current approach to maintenance (and many other features of the game) introduces the opposite of fun into the experience. In fact, it has the distinct and likely outcome of making people regret having interacted with the game.
    Ultimately, they are making a game, not a competitive sport. If their designs take away enjoyment, they are failing at their main goal - no matter how much we may philosophically think otherwise.
  • Persil
    Persil Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
    edited February 2021
    jtwood got the point - I 100% agree.

    Tremayne said:
    @persil - great to hear. My iPad restarted the game even though I didn’t use it while the maintenance period ran so consider yourself blessed.

    Win the 1st place for us unlucky few.
    I hope my findings will be useful to you in the future, guys. I made it to Tier 1, 180/180 points. What a feeling after two previous "Colossal Tussles" lost due to softlock bug, and today's nearly missed because of Maintenance.
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    jtwood said:
    Barnabes said:
    I must be too old, because when I see someone complain that the devs aren’t holding their hand 24/7 to make sure they are having an optimal time, I can only roll my eyes. 

    It’s an event with almost 24 hours to do your matches, so no real rush to start early for fear of losing recharges. AND they announced the maintenance repeatedly far in advance (I didn’t read the announcement is an excuse, not a valid reason). AND the game continues running after maintenance is over (unless your device shuts it down for some reason, presumably processing power). 
    All you angry birds should take a lesson from Trenayne and just accept that you goofed. Happens to the best of us. If you are that set on perfect performance and top rewards, pay attention to what’s going on. Don’t go on autopilot then complain you got blindsided. 
    Just for comparison, when I played Magic Online, they would prevent starting matches X minutes before a maintenance break. And they would flash a warning before it happened, too. In this game, they post a note in the news section and expect you to remember it days later (potentially). Then, if you're playing and they shut it off, blamo... You're potentially out points in an event with very strong, individual rewards.
    It's not asking for hand holding. It's asking for similar treatment as other applications that cut into real-time play when shutting down. It's also asking that they not schedule maintenance during such a high-value event, seeing how it risks a feelbad.
    EDIT: I say this as someone who was about to start playing TCT but put it off for a bit only to come back and realize maintenance had started. I knew it was coming. I read the notifications. I still forgot - partly because I don't convert UTC to my time zone automatically when reading announcements. Basically, I'm lucky I didn't walk into a costly mistake.
    Maybe @Oktagon_Support could send a final heads up warning for on-app players that they will be doing a maintenance in 15 mins? I could be on board with that. if I start a match after that, that's on me.

  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,259 Chairperson of the Boards
    Other games I play have a scrolling banner across the top of the screen that repeats every minute or so. 
  • Gunmix25
    Gunmix25 Posts: 1,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    madwren said:
    Other games I play have a scrolling banner across the top of the screen that repeats every minute or so. 
    That is a good one 
  • Julie71
    Julie71 MTGPQ Mod Posts: 707 Critical Contributor
    We do try to remind our players on discord.   I for one am older and can forget why I walked into a room. So gentle reminders doesn't seem to much to ask.  Now just remember that these people have a **** ton more on their plates. Other than to send us reminders.   So maybe set an alarm on your phone. (Gentle reminder) problem solved. 
  • Persil
    Persil Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
    Julie71 said:
    We do try to remind our players on discord.   I for one am older and can forget why I walked into a room. So gentle reminders doesn't seem to much to ask.  Now just remember that these people have a **** ton more on their plates. Other than to send us reminders.   So maybe set an alarm on your phone. (Gentle reminder) problem solved. 
    Of course, I can set an alarm. Or I can write a computer program to send me a notification. Or I can ask my uncle to tell me. Or get my team to send me a Discrod message. Etc.

    I can. But it's not how it should work.

    Playing a game is not a chore, and it should not feel like a penalty. Ultimately, we all play games to have fun, right? If a problem puts this fun away, or - even worse - makes people angry, it should be solved. Don't rely on thousands of players to have all of them be solving it. EVen here a number of people claimed to experience it. And remember, most of players don't use forum.

    I do get that the team has lots of stuff to do. The thing is, solving this problem is really a matter of a few lines, of sort: if (time_to_alarm < 30 mins) -> send_notification, or so.

    It's not that they can't do it or don't have time. To me, it's that they don't care about players. And I'm not saying this just based on this problem, rather based on my whole expression after playing this game for nearly two years.
  • Magic:PQ Support Team
    Magic:PQ Support Team ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,444 Chairperson of the Boards

    Hi everyone,

    Just to let you aware, I sent the Community report yesterday and requested the analysis of the possibility of having a notification a few minutes before maintenance starts.

    Thank you so much for all the feedback and interest,
    Marcela.
  • jtwood
    jtwood Posts: 1,285 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yessss!
  • Persil
    Persil Posts: 137 Tile Toppler
    edited June 2021
    Despite promises, this happened again.

    Most of the week, we had no ranked events. Then on Thursday, Terrors in the Shadows opened. Guess, when the devs decided to do maintenance?

    A ) on Mon, Tue or Wed, when we had no ranked events so everyone would be ok

    B ) on Thu or Fri, but at least a 10-15 minutes BEFORE new charges so people don't get trapped

    C ) on Fri, 10 minutes AFTER new charges so people start playing, and then are forced to quit, and irreversibly lose their rank

    I really, REALLY don't understand why you again can't start maintenance (or at least shut the game) 20 minutes earlier, so that people don't lose rank. And almost nobody cares about the "server maintenance" messages as they 1) appear to early and 2) don't tell time in your time zone. No, people won't bother to check what's current GMT time.

    And I really, REALLY don't understand why, despite reporting it four (!) months ago, this is still an issue.