MMR, Scaling, Tanking... the new Myth

Unknown

So here is my question to everybody out there. We have played long enough to know about the basic mechanics of the game. They change and we are forced to guess what the new functionality is, but always the mechanics stay the same. Until now!

There was a time, not too long ago, where we were forced to, for all intents and purposes to tank our rosters for the sake of controlling our MMR; for both PvP and PvE, and to try and tame the beast known as scaling.

The new Myth states that the Devs took a disliking to this and frowned upon it. Kind of like Spiderman's too powerful "Prologue Healing". So, like all things MPQ, one night in the calmest hours, while no one was watching and all the kids lay in bed, they went and changed the code...

This is where I am beginning to have difficulties with this. They increased said levels by over 70% from 230 to 395 caps. Than, they take away our counterbalancing weapon (SpiderMan) that helped in circumstances beyond our control of "forced labor (grinding)" that in turn contributed to ridiculous scaling of levels. **Edited to fix timeline **

Now, apparently, they have taken away our ability to counteract their scaling algorithms. We now face harder and harder foes in every aspect of the game, with no way of bringing it under control. Tanking is useless, so save your roster. You no longer have (if you believe you ever had) control over your destiny (MMR) in MPQ.

You, me, WE the veterans (in terms of play time) of MPQ are quite litterally being scaled out to "newer players".

Please help separate the truth from the myth. What are you seeing in terms of MMR control? Tanking still helping anyone? I know for me, it's not.

Unknown

I've noticed the same thing. Tanking still appears works for me in PVP, but in PVE, even though I had my **** handed to me time after time after time last night and this morning, the levels still remain almost double than that of my current roster.

Unknown

You can do something about your PvP MMR but it takes more effort than it did before.

As far as PvE tanking goes it works BUT it seems to take suiciding your high level, slow healing heroes and the rate you can drop your scaling is much much slower than the rate it will increase if you want to place particularly highly in your event. I imagine if you went full suicide on an entire PvE event you'd have a pretty low level going into the next BUT you would have missed out on a new hero entirely AND your alliance might not appreciate your "contribution" in the event

Some people are better than others at controlling their PvE scaling (not me, already fed up enough with the amount of counterintuitive stuff I need to do to place well in events of all types, this is a game after all and sometimes I just want to play it to do well ). Assuming they are telling the truth about their placings and enemy levels (don't see why they wouldn't) it is definitely possible.

Unknown

Personally I am OK with PvE scaling for veteran / high roster players.

Because with the change in bracketing, the path to 3* land has become much more uphill for beginners. And it will only get tougher with each new character release. I don't see anyone without at least one level 100+ 3* in the top10 of my PvPs anymore. Of course, that might just be the "gentle push" working as intended, but it doesn't change the fact that you can't get the top rewards without shielding anymore. Combined with the slot pricing change, beginners and F2P players may often find themselves SOL.

So having one half of the game be more beginner-friendly seems like a fair balance. The only issue I have is the lack of rewards scaling leading to every PvE degenerating into a "forced grind." Yet, increasing rewards might lead to a "rich get richer" scenario so I can understand why it hasn't been done

Nonce Equitaur 2

Is anyone still facing level 395 opponents?

Based on my $1000 Challenge, we can deduce a few things.
1. The devs read every thread, so they were obviously aware of it.
2. Based on their change log, they value money opportunities.
3. They didn't post a video of themselves playing their own game.

Even with unlimited free healthpacks and boosts, they were unable to beat their own level 395 challenge. Therefore, they realized they were being unfair, and perhaps scaled things down as a result.

I've been taking things easy on the Sentry event -- I want to avoid high levels at any cost, even if it requires avoiding the game. In the Daken event, there was an instantaneous and gruesome MMR penalty every time I spent money, so I'm now avoiding spending funds on the game. By not playing and not spending, my MMR levels have been much better.

Unknown

As far as I can tell you have to kill guys who at least has a shot at winning the encounters to lower PvE scaling.

I have level 395s and I can see my levels go down after I kill about 10 guys above level 85, but stuff is still going up faster than they're going down. It's probably better than doing nothing though.

HailMary

I have 5 L141s (no Spidey), am on Day 129, and do well in every PVE. I haven't finished outside of Top 5 in my main brackets for quite a while. I've yet to see anything cross the L200 threshold in this PVE. I'm not sure how PVE tanking has changed, since I don't tank in PVEs, but as others have noted, PVP tanking still works.

gobstopper wrote:

I don't see anyone without at least one level 100+ 3* in the top10 of my PvPs anymore. Of course, that might just be the "gentle push" working as intended, but it doesn't change the fact that you can't get the top rewards without shielding anymore. Combined with the slot pricing change, beginners and F2P players may often find themselves SOL.

That's the "gentle push" at work. There are still brackets where a sub-800 score will get you first place.

Unknown

I was able to reduce my pve mmr significantly. My opponents used to be over 250-300, now everything is under 100.

Unknown

Unless you've a bug, your PvE scaling is reduced at the start of every new event, so if you haven't been doing well in them you're likely to have very good scaling for the next event.

The increase in scaling is faster than the linear compare to the increase in points, but this is because in the absence of last minute main bracket bailout nodes, an early lead offers a considerable advantage at the end. While the missions at the end tend to be more valuable, community scaling tends to reduce the advantage of favorable scaling at the end as well. We're certainly not seeing anyone who is say 2000 points behind in main bracket compared to whoever just had absurdly low scaling and easily grinded every node down to 1 to make up for that deficit. Basically, grind early and you can get burned by personal scaling at the end, but try to grind late and you can also get burned by community scaling at the end. I got burned by personal scaling at the end of The Hunt for Falcon, for example, and dropped out of contention for top 2 that I normally do. But, as can be seen in many threads, plenty of people get burned by community scaling in this last round too.

Deimos12

Microtom wrote:

I was able to reduce my pve mmr significantly. My opponents used to be over 250-300, now everything is under 100.

And I made out with Kate Upton last night, went home and had Gordon Ramsey cook me dinner and was tucked in by Alison Brie.
Look I can say things with no reasoning or proof on the internet too!!

HairyDave

After my woeful showing in The last run of the Hunt I basically don't care about scoring highly in PVEs anymore - I do enough to make sure the Alliance gets the top 100 cover and that's enough for me.

Because of that, my personal scaling is almost non-existant. I still get burned by community scaling but it rarely gets to the point where I'm forced to use massive numbers of boosts just to beat a node. Prodigal Sun, for example, I've yet to see a single node go any higher than L100.

So tanking works, but only by not playing which seems incredibly stupid.

reckless442

I have 395 opponents in several nodes of the current sub-event. I was actually managing my MMR fairly well until things got so messed up in Oscorp Heroic. I was in a bracket where some players were way ahead due to te point reset, so I had to play more than I intended.

The key to managing scaling seems to be to take damage in every match. The problem is that, once you reach a certain point, there is not much survivable damage. At some point in the 200s, if an opponent gets off an AP power, you are probably dead. So quick battles using boosts and characters who stun or control the board become necessary. But that only fuels scaling because you are not taking enough damage. It's a truly moronic system.

But, hey, wasn't the Spidey nerf going to end scaling? Guess his blue wasn't the cause after all.

Unknown

When you talk about 'level XYZ' guys you also have to think about the event in context.

This event features some of the weakest lineup for enemy in a while. The Avenger goons are a replica of HAMMER's, and we don't even have too many Lieutenants and Pyros except for a few select cases. The Avenger lineup is quite weak. OBW and Storm are both missing, and Hulk actually becomes easier when he goes to level 395 (no need to worry about Anger). The hardest node in this setup in terms of team composition was probably HT + 2 Pyros, but that's not exactly Thor + 2 Grenadiers that we had way back in Simulator Basic. Wolverine + green pump is somewhat dangerous, but still easily within surviveable range by Daken. Honestly I don't see most Avenger lineup approaching the difficulty of just facing an equal level Ares by himself, as Ares has tank HPs and has 3 attacks that can easily wipe out anyone (or a team). Note that Black Panther and Captain America only have one color they can do damage from, and their damage is actually kind of overkill since after around level 200 they pretty much kill anyone (or any team) in one hit already, so the fact that they now can hit 10K or whatever doesn't actually make them any harder. I think I took a 12.8K Adamantium Slash from Wolverine in one of those games, and again when they do that kind of ridiculous damage, you're actually more worried about how many colors they can attack from than how potent their big attack is.

Also, the major boosted hero is Daken, who is probably top 5 tier at least. At level 231 he can fight many Avenger at level 395 1on1 and still win. So far I'm just blue boosting and winning most games quite comfortably. Doesn't mean I don't take damage but it's actuall not that close unless I screwed up somewhere, and even if I do take a 12.8K Adamantium Slash, usually Daken + someone can still finish the job (make sure you keep Daken alive at all costs).

FaerieMyst

There was a time, not too long ago, where we were forced to, for all intents and purposes to tank our rosters for the sake of controlling our MMR; for both PvP and PvE, and to try and tame the beast known as scaling.

I've never intentionally tanked. I'm not a superstar but I consistently do well. I don't try to manage the system. I just play. I spend my days managing everything in sight. It isn't how I spend my leisure time.

MMR, Scaling, Tanking, Nerfing and everything else is a First World Problem. Seriously, for the players, it is a game. However, enjoyable, it is still a game. The outcome won't feed you. It won't clothe you. It won't shelter you. If you are stressing about MPQ then perhaps it is time to find a new leisure activity.

Unknown

about PVE i think have something to say:
1.tanking not help for me, did 10 times in a row while waiting refresh- almost nothing
2. however, sometimes hard win reduce scale: 3 times(once per sub) i started node with full HP and won it with 1 survivor with low hp(once ares killed himself, but it still count as win o3o), and lvl dropped from 212 to 196 at this node, but i saw this once per sub
3.at event start i had daken 1/1/1 now i have 3/3/3(2 from first pvp, 3 from another+ 45k progressive reward), and i noticed that when i lvled daken 20>41 and 41>89 (used 1click upgrade both times)after my win enemy got some lvls too.
4. i hate daken: never start play node with low hp... he healed at battle to full, and my team got low damage- result enemy got lvls. i was tried avoid that, did yesterday 264 times same mission in prologue with obw, had bad luck..and i think im doing wrong node at this point.(yes, i counted...)
5. once i used boosts at <defense the sentry 3> cuz i scared of thor+hulk, but it battle... i did 7 extra turns at first round and killed thor with them, and at same turn nuked 12k hulk hp with skills.. result - team lvl 192>204. so don't kill enemy very fast..
at current thunderbolts sub i have most enemy 195-230 lvls, and some easy nodes with 30-90
currently i have almost 60k, most time i played i faced enemy teams lvl 140-230, while my best is daken(current lvl 89), ares 85(boosted 125). i also used almost every single char from my roster 24/24- low lvl 3* used to k̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶m̶ team up with sentry, and vary 1-2* at clearing easy nodes to avoid scaling.

about pvp:
tanking help a little, but it took many points to return after..