Duel Decks: Daxos Deck Balance Buff Request/Suggestion

SuperCoolGeezer

@Oktagon_Support

So... when is the Daxos deck getting buffed?

I've just went on a 15 minute cursing parade while playing 7 games of his pre-constructed garbage deck. It should only take 3-4 games.. 

Problems:
Extinguish All Hope - I need kill my opponents HUGE and evergrowing creature but this spell kills my creatures as well (Archon of Sun's Grace, Pegasus Tokens from Archon of Sun's Grace, and Demons from Daxo's Torment). Therefore, it is a highly conditional card with low payout. Usually, even 1 creature Kalemne gets out is already HUGE; there is NO wait for Kalemne to cast 2 or 3 creatures to try to get value.

Doomwake Giant - Only gives "-2/-2 UNTIL END OF TURN." Are you kidding me? Kalemne's creatures come into play as 8/8 from the start. I can hardly get enough mana to even cast 3 auras/enchantment cards in one turn. -6/-6 isn't going to kill any of Kalemne's giant creatures. By the time, I save many to activate constellation 3 times, I'm dead... and Kalemne's 1st ability has already buffed it out of range for this "-2/-2" to do anything at all.

Diabolic Servitude - There are two actual CREATURES in the deck.. I have to wait for my creature to somehow die for Diabolic Servitude to even be useful. And there are only TWO cards in the deck that it can target; meaning 80% of the time it is useless. And by that time, Kalemne will use her 2nd ability to give said "creature that killed my creature" vigilance and double strike with an unstoppable amount of power and toughness. So even if I use Diabolic Servitude, most like that creature will die again.

Triumphant Surge - Can't target that Stinkdrinker Daredevil in Kalemne's deck; it is actually quite a threat too; since it reduces the cost of other giants and enables my opponent to get out HUGE creatures faster. *This Triumphant Surge isn't as terrible but with all the conditional and limited cards like Diabolic Servitude and Extinguish all Hope.. we could use a more reliable card somewhere.

TOO MANY CREATURES in Daxos Deck - There are too many potential creatures so you end up keeping them in hand (i.e. aura creatures) or replacing creatures (or killing your own with Extinguish all Hope..). SIX potential creatures but only 3 creature slots on the battlefield - USELESS. CHANGE Daxo's 1st ability "Greater Eidolon of Longing" creature to an enchantment support that buffs +x/+x to the 1st creature.

- Daxo's 1st ability "Greater Eidolon of Longing"
- Archon of Sun's Grace
- Pegasus from Archon of Sun's Grace
- GhostBlade Eidolon (although this one can be cast as an "enchanted" card so much better)
- Doomwake Giant
- Demon from Daxo's Torment

Kalemne's Permanent Support "Thundering Victory" Buff - This is FAR too strong. Giving +1/+1 to Kalemne's creatures when Kalemne's 1st ability is already extremely cheap (4 loyalty) and increasingly buffs creatures the more times its used. REMOVE the +1/+1 Buff.

Daxos' Permanent Support "Endless Search" - uhhhh.. weak! Isn't the game over by then? And this conflicts with Diabolic Servitude - There aren't enough targets for both of them. Change to return auras not creatures.

Replace these cards:
Doomwake Giant -> Celestial Archon
Diabolic Servitude -> Silence the Believers

Maybe Replace this card:

Daxo's Torment -> Hero of Iroas / though preferably the Thero's Beyond Death "Pharika's Libation" or Origins "Unholy Hunger" or "Suppression Bonds"
*Pharika's is preferred since it allows removal of Kalemne's 1st ability support.

madwren

I agree in general, but I've no problem with Extinguish All Hope being a two-sided board wipe. One-sided wipes are few and far between for good reason.   This is a solid compromise--if you've enchanted a creature, you can save it, otherwise it's gone.

SuperCoolGeezer

madwren said:

I agree in general, but I've no problem with Extinguish All Hope being a two-sided board wipe. One-sided wipes are few and far between for good reason.   This is a solid compromise--if you've enchanted a creature, you can save it, otherwise it's gone.

It was the 1st one I wrote and as I kept going, my opinion started to change a bit (Hence there was no suggested change for it really). Also, it was bad on the premise that this Daxos pre-constructed deck remains the same and unchanged; however, if some/all other suggested changes are implemented, Extinguish All Hope becomes much more reasonable. And I 100% agree with your view on board wipes, it is a solid compromise for its cost. 

On another note, i wasnt aware an enchanted creature is not affected by Extinguish all Hope; thanks for that info - really appreciate it! In my playthroughs, there was no mana/time to enchant my creatures as Kalemne was dropping threats far too large; and, if my creature was enchanted, it was because I was already far ahead on board and a board wipe was unneccessary. But that's just a very limited sample of games I experienced  

SuperCoolGeezer

@Oktagon_Support

Looking forward to hearing back on this, thanks.

Stormcrow

Nope it does not. Both decks are actually pretty horribly unoptimized, but Kalemne's abilities make any deck with some fatties in, even a horribly unoptimized one, still plenty dangerous, whereas Daxos's abilities....do not.

naabaldan

Daxos: spam first ability as often as possible. thats all

Kalemne: fetch some creatures, use third ability, overkill

Daxos' first ability is the only usefull one, as it fetches some playable aura cards and let your creatures(tokens) grow. In combination with double strike and demons out you may get a big one, control your opponent with inevitable end, heal yourself... the longer the match goes the higher the chance to loose the fight

Second and third ability are useless.
To use the second ability you need experience points from spamming the first ability and playing your auras and enchentment creature.
The third ability is a waste at all, completely useless and compared to kalemnes third a joke. With kalemnes third active one attack deals damage to a creature, the opponents pw and the creature itself does it too. Having three creatures out with mana cost 14 or more its even multiplied.

Most important: daxos third needs preparation/experience points (more than only 10)

kalemnes third is simple: collect your loyalty, fire third, let your creature(s) attack, boom.

Conclusion
I think this event is history. Noone cares about it and only @Nalthazar will ever own necromancers covenant.
Say goodbye to the second dual decks event. There is no time to change it because the new set is on its way.

Maybe they ask us, what we think about a well designed dual deck, with two equaly strong pws and decks that fit well. Maybe.

Gunmix25

naabaldan said:

[sic] third ability are useless.

The third ability is a waste at all, completely useless and compared to kalemnes third a joke. With kalemnes third active one attack deals damage to a creature, the opponents pw and the creature itself does it too. 

I am going to respectfully disagree and agree with you here. Whilst Daxos is completely hindered by atrocious card choices that hamper his ability to play, his third is only problematic in a few cases. But if he is at his third, you fire it. period. His third is ridiculously powerful by the third firing; every time you fire afterwards you gain substantially more ground than Kalemne  I have toyed with Kalemne so many times with it, it isn't even funny. Outside the event I find him unique in crowd control and outclasses every PW for the long game... Daxos is easy to beat if you work around his high removal or deny his ability to remove but very few PW are gifted in this regard. 

From experience building for a fast build for Daxos will almost surely ensure his death so don't do that. His builds are best designed to enforce a slower match and force the opponent to push through, if able. All the while he blasts that 3rd loyalty and grows substantially in recovery power and drastically reduces the opponent's ability to recover no matter due to the passive board wipes and/or severe power/toughness reduction. 

While Daxos 1st is indeed a very nice ability. I do agree the second leaves much to be desired. But that 3rd is nuts. I encourage giving him some more thought and experimentation. I play with him everyday and have yet to be tired of him. 

I don't disagree with your tactic for the event though... firing the first is the best option due to what he has available to play with.

Stormcrow

Gunmix25 said:

His third is ridiculously powerful by the third firing; every time you fire afterwards you gain substantially more ground than Kalemne

Respectfully, if matches with Kalemne are going on so long that Daxos gets to fire off his 3rd ability 3 times, either Daxos got some truly amazing cascades or the Kalemne deck is doing really, really, REALLY badly.

Ampersand

I agree with @Gunmix25 The trick to Daxos is ramping to his 3rd ASAP. He does need other control cards and he really benefits from Loyalty converters to get to his 3rd quickly. 

Heartstone

I never got to activate Daxos's third ability in any game against Kalemne. I was much too busy trying to survive...

Seriously, I've given up on this event. As long as we must use that horrible default deck, playing Daxos feels like a punishment, and once I'm through with the first part, I don't have the patience to play him (or Kalemne) anymore.

I choose Kalemne in the duel because she's always going to win in the current state, but I only played a minimum number of games.

Let's start a little competition here to help Oktagon: which deck would you suggest for Daxos?

soultwist

Kind of just piling on here but it seems to me that one of the coolest parts about the event should be getting to use a deck that is exciting and fun and cards you don't have.  I'm sure there are plenty of players that can use whatever but how cool would it be for newer players to be handed the keys to a Ferrari instead of the current 1994 Plymouth Voyager with a leaky head gasket decks they have now.

Magic:PQ Support Team

Hi everyone,

Sorry for taking so long to show up here! 

It has been busy days with the schedule for 4.5.

Just letting you know that I just finished a document with your feedback on how to make DvK balanced, and I'm sending it to our Game Design team.

Thank you so much for all the feedback and interest,
Marcela.

Gunmix25

Stormcrow said:

Gunmix25 said:

His third is ridiculously powerful by the third firing; every time you fire afterwards you gain substantially more ground than Kalemne

Respectfully, if matches with Kalemne are going on so long that Daxos gets to fire off his 3rd ability 3 times, either Daxos got some truly amazing cascades or the Kalemne deck is doing really, really, REALLY badly.

well for starters... Greg just stinks at playing any PW. So in essence I view my AI opponent as always playing really, really, badly.    

1. Kalemne is ridiculously easy to build for... add fatties + play. Pretty straight forward and also why Kalemne wins the event so much. There is a very good pool of cards to choose from.

2. Daxos is a whole different kind of PW and requires finesse and skill, He is definitely not a plug and play PW. And he needs a rather eclectic selection of removal and control, much of this is denied or heavily restricted in the event. I field every single removal I can get my hands on and fuel Black Market. Kalemne biggest weakness is when black floods the field and that's how I have been getting my control in place. It's not perfect by any means because of the set restrictions, but outside of the event... Daxos is extremely reliable and quite enjoyable to play, even in Legacy. 

Heartstone

Oktagon_Support said:

Hi everyone,

Sorry for taking so long to show up here! 

It has been busy days with the schedule for 4.5.

Just letting you know that I just finished a document with your feedback on how to make DvK balanced, and I'm sending it to our Game Design team.

Thank you so much for all the feedback and interest,
Marcela.

Thanks Marcella. We'll wait with fingers crossed ;-)