App Stores 30%

First21

Hay there recently I’ve been reading about the App Stores 30% cut on in app purchases and that got me thinking would the HP and ISO purchase be 30% lower if we where able to buy directly from d3 because I read that one game company sys you will get a permanent 20% discount on purchases if you buy from them instead of in app. What do you think?

Vhailorx

(1) Apple doesn't permit devs to sell resources directly to circumvent the app store. Trying that gets you kicked off the store (yay for vertical monopolies!)

(2) if the app store cut were lowered, it would almost certainly become extra profits for demi/d3, not reduced prices.

bluewolf

LOL.  You didn't mention that the game in question is FORTNITE.

If you are the (one of the?) most successful game(s) on the planet, you can get away with stuff other games can only dream about.

Apple and Google certainly aren't going to kick Fortnite out of their stores.

What you are seeing is Fortnite engaging in some good old throwing-your-weight around as a negotiating tactic.  Hoping the Apple/Google stores decide reducing their cut would be better than losing the sweet Fortnite dollars they are not getting ANY cut of as players enjoy the discount.

We will see what happens and whether that becomes a storewide thing when/if there is any adjustment.

However,let me quote this from a statement from Epic:

"In operating Fortnite on open platforms and operating the Epic Games Store, Epic has processed over $1,600,000,000 of direct payments successfully, and uses industry-trusted encryption and security measures to protect customer transactions."

Now, MPQ's revenue might have been about 1.1 million in July in both stores.  As you can see, Fortnite has a lot more leeway in how they behave in this matter.

Even if the stores changed their rate, they might limit it to the highest volume revenue generators.

------

Another question would be whether MPQ could pull off a direct payment mechanism that was seamless enough to appeal to players and the insta-gratification that comes with making purchases using dollars that you can immediately use to chase covers etc.  I mean it's an open question whether the game's programming could accommodate that kind of change and make it work right all the time.  I would guess Fortnite has around 100x the staff that MPQ does, if not more.

First21

any of you that played on stem are the prices ether same as mobile or not?

KGB

bluewolf said:

Apple and Google certainly aren't going to kick Fortnite out of their stores.

Whelp, Apple has in fact kicked Fortnite out of the App store and spawned a lawsuit by Epic. The result of which  could (should) shake up the Apple/Google Monopoly.

KGB

Vhailorx

KGB said:

bluewolf said:

Apple and Google certainly aren't going to kick Fortnite out of their stores.

Whelp, Apple has in fact kicked Fortnite out of the App store and spawned a lawsuit by Epic. The result of which  could (should) shake up the Apple/Google Monopoly.

KGB

Wait, you think an antitrust suit in the United States will result in a weaker monopoly?  What year do you think it is?  1960?  Antitrust is a joke ever since Robert bork.

Epic might win in NDCA, maybe even in the 9th circuit.  But the corporatist idealogues in scotus will laugh them out of the room.

Polares

Vhailorx said:

KGB said:

bluewolf said:

Apple and Google certainly aren't going to kick Fortnite out of their stores.

Whelp, Apple has in fact kicked Fortnite out of the App store and spawned a lawsuit by Epic. The result of which  could (should) shake up the Apple/Google Monopoly.

KGB

Wait, you think an antitrust suit in the United States will result in a weaker monopoly?  What year do you think it is?  1960?  Antitrust is a joke ever since Robert bork.

Epic might win in NDCA, maybe even in the 9th circuit.  But the corporatist idealogues in scotus will laugh them out of the room.

There is another lawsuit from Spotify being investigated in the EU, and the EU was already looking pretty hard at Apple/Google store policies. 

A couple of days ago (before the Epic thing) a senator looking into Apple Store practices was already saying that a 30% share is crazy (which it clearly is)

So, who knows, maybe there is change coming...

KGB

Vhailorx said:

KGB said:

bluewolf said:

Apple and Google certainly aren't going to kick Fortnite out of their stores.

Whelp, Apple has in fact kicked Fortnite out of the App store and spawned a lawsuit by Epic. The result of which  could (should) shake up the Apple/Google Monopoly.

KGB

Wait, you think an antitrust suit in the United States will result in a weaker monopoly?  What year do you think it is?  1960?  Antitrust is a joke ever since Robert bork.

Epic might win in NDCA, maybe even in the 9th circuit.  But the corporatist idealogues in scotus will laugh them out of the room.

I dunno. AT&T was broken up in the 80's and Microsoft while not broken up was neutered enough in the late 90's/early 2000's to allow Apple to rise from the ashes, Linux/Android to gain major market share and other browers like Chrome/Firefox to make IE as obsolete as IE once made Netscrap. If there is even an investigation it will make both companies tread very lightly (as it did Microsoft for 10-15 years) since technically the Govt has infinite resources (as Microsoft found out).

Shining the spotlight on their 30% rent seeking policies is IMHO very good for consumers and app developers.

KGB

HoundofShadow

Even if they reduced their commission, I'm sure they will come up with different ways to charge extra fee on top of "basic service".

bluewolf

Look at it this way.....when you spend $9.99 on VIP you gave about $3.00 to Google or Apple....and you've probably been doing that for years and found the game years ago if you are a vet.  

If the game brought in $1 million in a month (seems about where the general revenues fall) then Apple and Google got $300,000 of that.

And MPQ is somewhere around 180th or so on charts, usually.  So they (Apple and Google) are bringing in millions to billions a month easily, just from IAPs.

I mean Apple and Google create a seamless avenue for users to find and update apps and conduct purchases.  I don't think anyone would argue they don't deserve some compensation for that (maintaining the servers and infrastructure, user base etc etc).

But maybe it doesn't need to be quite so much....

Alfje17

First21 said:

any of you that played on stem are the prices ether same as mobile or not?

Prices on my Steam account used to be cheaper than on my Android one, but the new Peggy bundle is 15£49 and 14£99 respectively, so that seems to have changed.

Steam also takes 30% from every sale, so no difference with Apple/Google stores.

Vhailorx

KGB said:

Vhailorx said:

KGB said:

bluewolf said:

Apple and Google certainly aren't going to kick Fortnite out of their stores.

Whelp, Apple has in fact kicked Fortnite out of the App store and spawned a lawsuit by Epic. The result of which  could (should) shake up the Apple/Google Monopoly.

KGB

Wait, you think an antitrust suit in the United States will result in a weaker monopoly?  What year do you think it is?  1960?  Antitrust is a joke ever since Robert bork.

Epic might win in NDCA, maybe even in the 9th circuit.  But the corporatist idealogues in scotus will laugh them out of the room.

I dunno. AT&T was broken up in the 80's and Microsoft while not broken up was neutered enough in the late 90's/early 2000's to allow Apple to rise from the ashes, Linux/Android to gain major market share and other browers like Chrome/Firefox to make IE as obsolete as IE once made Netscrap. If there is even an investigation it will make both companies tread very lightly (as it did Microsoft for 10-15 years) since technically the Govt has infinite resources (as Microsoft found out).

Shining the spotlight on their 30% rent seeking policies is IMHO very good for consumers and app developers.

KGB

At&t was broken up in the early 80s (from a case that started on the 70s).  Robert Bork and his disciples utterly changed the jurisprudence of antitrust ~1978.  At&t would almost certainly prevail in a an alagous suit today. 

MS is a bit of an outlier, but even under democratic justice department was happy to settle for less than breaking up MS in the late 90s (and much of a titeust pressure on MS at that time came from Europe, rather than the US).

Believe me, I would LOVE tho think that the US justice department was willing and able to enforce antitrust law vigorously, and that US courts would evaluate antitrust claims on something other than customer prices. But that is just not a realistic perspective with the current state of judiciary.   Maybe in 20s years if the left wins power and doesn't lose focus on judicial appointments.  But not today. I would be utterly shocked if epic prevails in the supreme court (though I suppose apple might settle before that if the public pressure is very bad, or if Europe looks like to bring similar claims).

Also, let's not pretend like epic is the good guy here. They engage in plenty of their own anti-competitivr behaviours, mostly around  leveraging unreal engine's dominance to help them in other market sectors.  These are two very large corporations fighting over who has the power to extort more money from us.  We are extremely unlikely to be better off no matter who wins.

Warbringa

Yeah I am not crying for Epic, the market has already determined that you will pay the 30% that Apple/Google charges by the fact people are already willing to pay that amount, long-term Epic will take that extra 30% too as extra profit. In the short-term, Epic will offer a discount to try and get people to  move away from Apple/Google but that won't last long.