Mutate is weak!

versemage

Is it just me, or does mutate leave something to be desired? They have taken a mechanic that I was ecstatic about when I saw the paper version and made it completely humdrum. I can get over it being able to target humans and even unable to target tokens. I was not even a little okay with it not being able to target mutations! I mean come on, that was the whole flavor behind the mechanic, to be able to build huge, nasty creatures! But, after playing through the Ikoria training matches, I realized yet another flaw. I played the vulpikeet as it's mutate function as directed, and all the other creature got besides reinforcement was the +1/+1. Doesn't it make sense, both in flavor AND in gameplay that the mutate creature should also gain the EVERGREEN abilities of the mutating creature as well? Think of how useful and strategic, not to mention just plain more fun this mechanic could be. I mean, otherwise, it's just a watered down version of an Adventure creature, and we already have those. The devs have already altered Mutate from the paper version, they should be authorized to change it just a little more to make it worth playing, let alone even collecting. I don't even wanna buy any of this set the way it is now. 

Volrak

So far I've only played mutate in the training game as well.  So I'm reserving judgement on how well balanced it is until I've seen what it can do in a real deck.  But it already seems pretty clear that because all mutation abilities on a creature trigger each time the creature is reinforced, mutate would have been the most broken mechanic ever to be released if it was usable on token creatures.

versemage

I wasn't aware the mutate ability re-triggered after every further reinforcement. I'm okay with tokens not being targetable, I just wanted the creature played as mutate to ALSO transfer it's evergreen abilities to the mutation as well.

madwren

I was meh on mutation until I started playing around with some of the more powerful cards. It's extremely dangerous in the right setup. 

andrewvanmarle

versemage said:

I wasn't aware the mutate ability re-triggered after every further reinforcement. I'm okay with tokens not being targetable, I just wanted the creature played as mutate to ALSO transfer it's evergreen abilities to the mutation as well.

Mutate only triggers when the reinforcement comes from -casting- the mutated creature

One problem with mutate is that you can't play the mutating creature again, just the mutated creature. This leaves you with a creature in the deck that you may not want to play. Also there is actually no real mana advantage after you play the first mutate. 

And last but not least it doesnt trigger unless you pay the full cost by casting the mutated creature.

The only way I made it work was by using deadbridge chant.

Bil

I think mutate, despite being tricky to use, can have some interesting value if used wisely.

For example, you Can mutate a very powerful effect on a small cheap creature. That would allow to trigger a strong effect for a very small cost.

You Also might find interesting value when mutating 2 creatures with mutate toghether, as both effects should trigger when reinforced.
 Also ... You Can mutate A with B, and B with A ... Which means you have 2 creatures with strong effects when reinforced.

The mutate effect Also says that it triggers when the creature IS reinforced by CASTING A CARD, which means any spell card that isnt the creature but reinforces it should trigger the effect. (After exploring this option, it doesnt seem to work ... confusion might come from an  average translation of the original description)

Any tutor or creature copy effect that brings creature to your hand and fills it, will also give a lot of flexibility to the deck as you'll trigger the effect(s) of your choice.

We Also have several critters that Can create copies of themselves in your hand ... There might be something to do with them too.

However, the relatively high cost of mutate, and the risk of loosing your precious stack will probably make mutate harder to build around overall.

andrewvanmarle

Honestly if cards like deadbridge and chord of calling are needed to make mutate run smoothly, it's a sign that there is something wrong. Those are two of the most powerful cards in the game imo

Smokincookz

andrewvanmarle said:

Honestly if cards like deadbridge and chord of calling are needed to make mutate run smoothly, it's a sign that there is something wrong. Those are two of the most powerful cards in the game imo

I always have some hope that future set releases will bring cards that make previous mechanics more useable. Once we lose GRN, RNA, WAR, and M20 in Standard, I expect there will be viable alternatives to Chord of Calling and Deadbridge Chant. 

Chord of Calling, while powerful, is available to all through RT. It does however pose a problem for future pauper objectives, if they have mutate as a requirement. 

madwren

andrewvanmarle said:

Honestly if cards like deadbridge and chord of calling are needed to make mutate run smoothly, it's a sign that there is something wrong. Those are two of the most powerful cards in the game imo

They aren't required to make mutate run smoothly. Mutate works fine, it's just a non-intuitive mechanic. 

andrewvanmarle

I disagree madwren, 

Mutate puts you at a disadvantage, in card usage, tempo, mana and in bodies on the board. 

You have to pay a lot of mana upfront for an effect, creature destroy immediately destroys the strategy, and because you combine greg needs less cards to destroy. 

And holding a spell back to react to something doesn't also mean you hold back damage potential. (like holding back a direbat for the effect) 

jtwood

I'm fine with how reinforcements currently work, that they provide some benefit, and - most importantly - that unlike paper MTG, any reinforcement cast on subsequent turns effectively has haste. That's not nothing.

Aeroplane

Mutate mirrors the Adapt mechanic with it being slow, expensive  and easily reset with removal spells.(Adapt was worse as it bogged down the game) Mutate should have used an activation count down gem that would spark the mutation which would give it some extra life or give it a PW mark that permanently gives mutation to your cards when meeting a "10 something" criteria.

andrewvanmarle

An option would be to let the mutating card play again of the mutated creature.

So you play creature A, play B to mutate A and then play B again with the option to mutate A again.

That way you cou'd play your more expensive creature first and  reinforce it with the cheaper second creature.

Bil

The fact that mutating on an ETB creature does trigger the ETB effect again + the mutation effect has to be considered.

There's technically no loss when mutating, it IS basically th same as playing a second copy of the creature you have in play, except you get a bonus effect. It Also enhances the value of the further reinforcments.

Besides, if you use cheap mutation creatures on a Big creature ... It makes the first reinforcment even cheaper, with etb and so on.

You Can even reinforce a creature like Hoogak bypassing his mana condition for example.

Overall, I don't see any drawback if you add a single mutate card with a solid effect to an ETB build ... It's just pure benefit.