A Completionist's Thoughts on CP Value Entering the 5* Tier

helix72

This is targeted at fellow completionists, and assuming you've got most if not all of the 4* tier champed:

I don't think you can be a total completionist and ignorant of the current meta, as without certain 5*s your resource production will slow down too much and some of the below will be less relevant. So suffice it to say, getting a 5/5/x Kitty followed by a 5/x/x Hawkeye and a 5/5/x Okoye and 5/x/x Thor need to be near the top of the list of "need to haves" before even thinking about spending CP on other stuff. This means hoarding until special vaults give you a shot at one of them (shargeting as well) and then hoarding again until the next special vault comes along. This process takes months, to say the least.

Now that I'm near the end of that journey (on my roster, all but Hawkeye fits the above), I often wonder which is better: pulling classics or pulling special vaults?

I found the answer for me relatively simple: where do I get the best return on CP? if I consider a cover I'll have to save as unusable, I just need to calculate the CP cost per "usable" 5* cover for each vault and compare. It's a simple matter of determining the total number of 5* covers in a vault, determining how many of those would be usable, and then backing into the CP cost per "usable" cover.

For example, comparing classic pulls to the current "Cinema Legends" vault:

1) I count the number of classic 5* covers there are.
2) From that, I subtract the number of 5*s covers that would get saved. That includes any color for classic characters I already have at 13 covers total, and any color on any other classic that is already at 5 covers.
3) I divide 2) by 1) to get my "usable classic" 5* ratio, then multiply that by the 15% draw rate.
4) I take the cost per pull and divide by 3).

I then do the same thing for the Cinema Legends vault.

For example: 

The Classic Vault
Today as I write this, there are 117 classic covers (39 x 3).
I already have 6 of those characters at 13 covers and another 7 color covers at 5. So there are 117 - 3 x 6 - 7 = 92 usable.
92 / 117 x 15% = 11.8%
20 CP / 11.8% = 170 CP per usable cover

The Cinema Legends Vault
9 possible covers
I have none of those characters at 13 but I have 5 in Iron Man's red so my usable covers are 9 - 1 = 8
8 / 9 x 15% = 13.3%
25 CP / 13.3% = 188 CP per usable cover

So for me, trying to maximize my resources, it looks like I'll still get more value right now pulling from Classics. But this ignores one key thing: 4* feeders. Some 5*s don't have them, and others do but even with the feeders it won't be enough to get them to 13 covers (at least not without a dupe champ feeder). So we adjust: I consider all the shards I have and will get on the way to 370 for each 4 * feeder and update as if each 5* already had all those shards:

The Classic Vault
117 classic covers (39 x 3).
I already have 6 of those characters at 13 covers, but another 15 can be finished through feeders. Aside from those at 13, I won't have any other color covers at 5. So there are 117 - 3 x 21 - 0 = 54 needed.
54 / 117 x 15% = 6.9%
20 CP / 6.9% = 289 CP per needed cover

The Cinema Legends Vault
9 possible covers
Only Iron Man gets to 13 covers with his feeder, so my needed covers are 9 - 3 = 6
6 / 9 x 15% = 10.0%
25 CP / 10.0% = 250 CP per needed cover

So what at first looked like a bad deal, now looks like a good value. Now, with 97 4* characters, it might be a bit premature to count all those champ levels. But hopefully this at least gives you an idea of one framework you can use to think about where to spend your hard-earned CP, if you're anywhere in the same boat as me. And consider the typical Latest Legends vault, where you have none of the characters at 13 covers or with 5 in any color (and none have feeders): 25 CP / 15.0% = 167 CP per needed cover. A relative steal!

Projectus2501

I loved your profound analysis. And I myself did it at a point. But I'm going to present to you a more simple approach that I think gives good results:

Step one: pull classics until you have the majority of the chars (one cover is enough and you don't need all of them) 

Step two: try to get all the latest chars champed using ll and cp as time goes by

Step three: spend the rest (cp) only in the chars you mentioned. Thor, okoye, kitty, hawk and mb brb

Step two and three is where you will be for the rest of your game life. 

Dilution prevents you from trying to complete 95% of the chars not because they are unplayable but because the meta chars is where your game happiness will be. Also you will need the classicals once a year

itsuka7

There is one additional thing to consider choosing between classics and other vaults: you get 25% more 5* bonus shards in classics (15 per 100 cp instead of 12 per 100 cp). When numbers are close, that might become a consideration.

MadScientist

I am also on the quest to champ all classic 5-star characters in the game. An important consideration for me is if I can get the character to 13+ covers using only 4-star feeders. If yes, there is no need for extra random covers from any legendary store. Instead, the feeders will accumulate shards from heroic and mighty tokens and random covers from various sources. My characters in that group are Archangel, Loki, Cable, Doctor Octopus, The Hulk (Bruce Banner), Jean Grey, and Black Panther.

If the character cannot be champed using the 4-star feeder but could be champed from feeders and 250-300 shards which can be gained from progression in CL10 if the character is featured. This group has only one member: Captain Marvel. Again, there is no need for any random covers for these characters directly.

The final group are those characters that need even more covers than that. This group consists of Captain America (Infinity War) and Star-Lord. Therefore a store for me should feature one (or both!) of these characters.

bluewolf

I find it hard to judge all "useful" covers equally in Classics.

While I may be able to apply champ levels making a 5* draw "useful", I only really care about getting champ levels, in general, on a few people.

Now, pulling Classics makes a certain amount of senes to me when I am waiting out a Latest (Sinister) and the ability to get more shards per CP (from more pulls) can't be completely discounted.

To me the biggest thing - at least in the current era of 4/5/4/5 releases - is that I can't really divert too many pulls away from Latests if I want to finish a Latest and/or try to get more levels on a new meta.  So I sometimes dabble in Classics, or a store with a meta 5 I want more of (Okoye), but otherwise I'm staying the Latests course for the most part.

jamesh

One thing I think is missing from your metric is that 13 usable covers spread over 13 characters is far less useful than 13 usable covers for one character (even if it is a 5* people think of as a dud).  It might not make a difference in the very long term, but there is value in having a character champed today vs. years from now.

There's no guarantee that the game will hold your interest that long (or that it will even be here).  A fully covered character might help you now when they are essential for an event.

helix72

jamesh said:

One thing I think is missing from your metric is that 13 usable covers spread over 13 characters is far less useful than 13 usable covers for one character (even if it is a 5* people think of as a dud).  It might not make a difference in the very long term, but there is value in having a character champed today vs. years from now.

There's no guarantee that the game will hold your interest that long (or that it will even be here).  A fully covered character might help you now when they are essential for an event.

While I understand you're thinking of "useful" in the more traditional sense of a character or ability you can use in-game, I was defining useful to mean solely useful in my quest to champ every character. In that sense, having 13 covers in 1 character is worse for me as now there is a chance the next cover I draw will be the 14th cover for that character, which doesn't get me any closer to champing the entire roster, vs having 13 spread across 13 characters where (assuming no covers are at 5) the next cover I draw is guaranteed to get me closer to champing them all.

And as I mentioned at the beginning of the post, you really need Kitty, Thor, Okoye, and Hawkeye (some suggested Beta Ray Bill) before even thinking about embarking on this quest.

Your point about holding interest is well taken, thus this post is really only applicable for folks whose primary enjoyment comes from trying to champ the whole roster (i.e. completionists).

jamesh

Okay.  From a completionist point of view, you probably still want to differentiate between saved covers and champion levels though.  The 5* champion rewards cycle through legendary token, iso, 25 CP, HP.

So each champion level averages out to a 12.5 CP credit, which should reduce your calculated "CP Value" a bit as you go on.

helix72

@jamesh & @itsuka7
Thanks for the suggestions! The shards per pull are easier, so I made that one update now. I'll work on the additional champ level rewards later, and if I feel really industrious I'll think about bonus shards.

The shards are a simple 3 shards per pull, or 3/500 = 0.6% of a 5* you can use each pull. So I simply add 0.6% to the last 2 steps of each calc:

The Classic Vault
54 / 117 x 15% + 3 / 500 x 100% = 6.9% + 0.6% = 7.5%
20 CP / 7.5% = 265 CP per needed cover

The Cinema Legends Vault
6 / 9 x 15% + 3 / 500 x 100% = 10.0% + 0.6% = 10.6%
25 CP / 10.0% = 235 CP per needed cover

So my answer didn't change in this particular instance but the gap did narrow a little so as you point out, if it was close, it could swing the math.

Of course, this assumes 100% of shards are usable. Ask anyone who pulled the 13th cover for a 12 cover character with 475 shards built up--they aren't always. And this also ignores the extra 4* champ rewards...

argle_bargle

@helix72

I have only 3 five star covers that are at 5 (also, I'm not very good at stockpiling) so just about any cover is a "good" cover for me right now.

A Legends pull has a 15% chance of a 5* cover (translated to 500 shards since odds of a saved cover are quite low for me right now), 85% odds of a 4* cover. 40% of 4*s are feeders. Looking at total 4* champ rewards, converting CP to Classic Legends pulls, and dividing by the nice round number of 113, you can solve for the total value of a legends pull which turns out to be almost 100 5* shards each. (A feeder 4* is about 33, a non-feeder 4* is about 20, and a 3* is about 7.)