Patch Notes - 5/23 (More Spider-Man)

NorthernPolarity

UncleSam wrote:

Have a hard time believing this was a bug fix. How much feedback was given in the other thread and no one bothered to ask if that was right? I'm not buying it. Spreadsheet error. That's laughable. Let me try using that next time I screw up with my boss.

I don't see any reason for them to lie. In fact, wouldn't it have been better for them to lie to us and be like "Oh btw guys, we heard your feedback and now we're throwing Spidey a bone!". That probably would have made us happier than the way IceIX presented this announcement, lol.

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

Yeah, settle down guys it's not a big difference. It's only a buff to protect tiles with 0 webs increasing to 5 times the original values.

The protection at 0 webs is the most important value to this ability since you can use it immediately. The terrible initial value was the reason the nerf was unreasonable. Well, whatever. Just glad I didn't lose a character on my roster to nerfdom.

I remember the 0 webs protect strength was around 60 before, so this was actually a buff since 0 webs strength is the most likely type of strength you get even prior to this nerf (almost nobody threw out ATUs at random just to build bigger Spider-sense tiles).

Dauthi

Phantron wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Yeah, settle down guys it's not a big difference. It's only a buff to protect tiles with 0 webs increasing to 5 times the original values.

The protection at 0 webs is the most important value to this ability since you can use it immediately. The terrible initial value was the reason the nerf was unreasonable. Well, whatever. Just glad I didn't lose a character on my roster to nerfdom.

I remember the 0 webs protect strength was around 60 before, so this was actually a buff since 0 webs strength is the most likely type of strength you get even prior to this nerf (almost nobody threw out ATUs at random just to build bigger Spider-sense tiles).

I was comparing it to the nerf where the value was 20 without webs. People may have sold their Spiderman because his yellow was only mildly useful. This buff to his purple actually makes his purple the highlight of his character, and that easily tips him into an average character instead of useless.

One of my proposals was to make him more like a 3* Bullseye with added utility, so I am happy that he is fixed.

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

I was comparing it to the nerf where the value was 20 without webs. People may have sold their Spiderman because his yellow was only mildly useful. This buff to his purple actually makes his purple the highlight of his character, and that easily tips him into an average character instead of useless.

One of my proposals was to make him more like a 3* Bullseye with added utility, so I am happy that he is fixed.

I know, but I'm saying it was even better than his original Spider-sense for all practical purposes, which is actually kind of surprising.

Spoit

Phantron wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

I was comparing it to the nerf where the value was 20 without webs. People may have sold their Spiderman because his yellow was only mildly useful. This buff to his purple actually makes his purple the highlight of his character, and that easily tips him into an average character instead of useless.

One of my proposals was to make him more like a 3* Bullseye with added utility, so I am happy that he is fixed.

I know, but I'm saying it was even better than his original Spider-sense for all practical purposes, which is actually kind of surprising.

No, surprising was when they halved it in the first place, on top of the other nerfs

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

UncleSam wrote:

Have a hard time believing this was a bug fix. How much feedback was given in the other thread and no one bothered to ask if that was right? I'm not buying it. Spreadsheet error. That's laughable. Let me try using that next time I screw up with my boss.

I don't see any reason for them to lie. In fact, wouldn't it have been better for them to lie to us and be like "Oh btw guys, we heard your feedback and now we're throwing Spidey a bone!". That probably would have made us happier than the way IceIX presented this announcement, lol.

You may be right but it still reflects rather poorly on them. If they did read the entire feedback thread, why did no Devs go talk to QA, or better yet, check the values themselves? If they did playtest the new Spidey, how did this issue not come up?

Unknown

Interesting. Maybe I'll try giving Peter a spin in the iron man vs. I dropped him pretty quick in psylock, I was ending matches at less health with spider-man than without him.

Spoit

gobstopper wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

UncleSam wrote:

Have a hard time believing this was a bug fix. How much feedback was given in the other thread and no one bothered to ask if that was right? I'm not buying it. Spreadsheet error. That's laughable. Let me try using that next time I screw up with my boss.

I don't see any reason for them to lie. In fact, wouldn't it have been better for them to lie to us and be like "Oh btw guys, we heard your feedback and now we're throwing Spidey a bone!". That probably would have made us happier than the way IceIX presented this announcement, lol.

You may be right but it still reflects rather poorly on them. If they did read the entire feedback thread, why did no Devs go talk to QA, or better yet, check the values themselves? If they did playtest the new Spidey, how did this issue not come up?

Yeah, you'd think that they'd notice when they did the then-vs-now post that they'd have a sanity check, remembering if the discussions they had made the purple go up, or if it was really supposed to be reduced

Unknown

Well that makes him at least usable with a strong purple user like CMags or GSBW. Sad to see him only in that niche but better than nothing.

Unknown

This makes Spider-Man a bit more viable. Strengthen his base heal and prot at the expense of stun. Not useless anymore.

Unknown

Has anybody tried to play with Falcon/Spider man combo? defense must be insane.

Unknown

The change is a sizable improvement since you'll be making protect tiles at 0 webs fairly often but he's still pretty much garbage in PvP and only really useful in PvE when levels aren't too high since those protects won't do much unless you can kill ppl off before they fire abilities and having one hero offer zero damage doesn't help a ton in killing ppl off quickly.

I was going to say it at least lets him give OBW a run for her money in team protect and sustain but TBH AR both stopping abilities and letting you fire yours off quicker is still better than spider sense in mitigating incoming damage over a match.

Unknown

Well I tried him some more, and he definitely did worse than cmags (not surprising) and an under leveled hood. Can't imagine any would consider using him if they didn't have a high level one already.

Unknown

still useless?

MaxCavalera

IceIX wrote:

platypusavenger wrote:

Was the purple scaling a bug fix or a quick re-buff so that Spiderman has more than one usable ability? The patch notes from 5/21 make the 'Old Stats' in today's update seem like they were the intentional values.

Not complaining, but a lot of people probably relegated Spiderman to the dust bins yesterday and this is a pretty dramatic number change.

It was a bug fix. When we did our final checks, everything matched up to the spreadsheet values, so it passed QA without a hitch. I then posted those values because, well... they're on the spreadsheet, passed QA and were double checked before it went Live.

Someone on the team noticed yesterday that while the values *were indeed* correct on the spreadsheet, the ability was using scaling as if max level was 85, not 141. This caused the math to get all wonky for the ability when Spider-Man was leveled up past that and resulted in those final values, and a similar issue caused the weirdness with 4/5 being more powerful than 5/5. So it *is* a general buff, yes. But it's really just a fix that happened to have that effect.

Sounds like they looked at his abilities and subconsciously thought this must be a 2* character. ohhh poor web head

Unknown

Still useless, but at least this makes a little more sense than go nerf the purple down go 0 base given how impossibly trivial AMD useless it is to attempt to use spidey for his blue. If they want to try and make a useable spidey, then they should make it so a max of one purple tile counts towards web tile count. That way its not like every time you match purple you are putting your 5 ap blue to a 3 turn stun, but itakes the blue considerably less awful. Still nothing like it wa before, but I said roughly this when they first launched the info and I stick by it.

And for anyone thinking it would make venom too strong. 1. Its only counting one tile. 2. Venom can only down one at a time and makes the team a joke on def. Aka, totally mot worth it even if it did make it too easy to devour (which it would.t this way).

This bug buff is something, but it still not a big enough deal.to warrant his use in PvP. In pve, unless you ha e low lvls...ditto.

Unknown

None of this discussion matters.

Nobody fielding decent 3* teams plays 'to not get hit'. They play to minimize match time--end as quickly as possible. Everything else is secondary. Any point diverted from offense to defense is a detriment in PvE (you'll be hit more often), and outright wasted in PvP (you'll be losing matches in the time it takes you to win).

This was balanced before in old Spidey because he contributed three very strong secondaries--stun, heal, and defense. Stun was overpowered at 2blue--nobody denies that--but was viably balanced at 3 or 4 blue. What was lost in time setting up control was somewhat balanced by being able to build up consistent offense in the interim, making him viable (if not ideal--remember, the best players were still running faster damage teams).

Stun is now virtually worthless (too high cost and no lockdown potential), heal is only really useful in prologue (at 4 yellow matches), and purple is the best power.

Given the other options out there, NONE of the top players will be using Spidey in roster. Why would you? He's inferior to CMags or ShideldBro (or even MNMags) for board control/damage, and he's inferior to OBW or Daken for healing/damage (not to mention in a vs. matchup, OBW is actively removing blue and purple, and Daken is making green--ie: they're actually productive, rather than reactive).

Current Spidey is effectively worthless. They might as well make him a 2* L85, give him out to everybody, and players can prologue heal to their hearts' content.

Spencer75

MikeyMan wrote:

Has anybody tried to play with Falcon/Spider man combo? defense must be insane.

Yes, I've paired them and lazy Daken in the sentry event.

Match purple get protect tiles. Match green get strike tiles. Match yellow and buff both. Then eventually throw out a slew of protect tiles with falcon's purple. In one of my matches I took a juggernaut headbutt that did -1 damage.

Unknown

Spencer75 wrote:

MikeyMan wrote:

Has anybody tried to play with Falcon/Spider man combo? defense must be insane.

Yes, I've paired them and lazy Daken in the sentry event.

Match purple get protect tiles. Match green get strike tiles. Match yellow and buff both. Then eventually throw out a slew of protect tiles with falcon's purple. In one of my matches I took a juggernaut headbutt that did -1 damage.

Where was Juggernaut in this event?

ClydeFrog76

I'm smelling pork pies.