SCL 10 PVE : Does anyone enjoy playing the game for that much time?

Jexy

Man, fewer répétions would be amazing. I might then recommend the game to others instead of feeling ashamed of it. 

Glockoma

Repetition is the killer. I wish they had another format for scl10 altogether. My roster isn’t totally impressive. 13 champ 5’s, only one of them being current (Carnage), and hishest level 471 (doom). I have made progression every event and I do not have to whale it to get there. 

I rely on heavy alliance donations of mbw, spacing my plays out, and ultimately, Okoye (lol). But to be honest, the game can get very boring with the repetitive node slaying. (Sorry not sorry D3). To that end, I love the challenge node, but fear that it too will lose it’s luster after the 100th run of said event...

Projectus2501

Yeah... Repetition sucks... 7 games of each node... Why? I would prefer harder/challenging games to repetition anytime

Polares

helix72 said:

Polares said:

...the difficulty is more for 500+ level 5s players!

Also, the extra node was supposed to be EXTRA, it should not be required to get to max progression! 30min per completion is nuts! And if you make a mistake you need to start over (and use 3 health packs).

My experience is counter to this statement. I have zero champed 5* characters but have managed to hit full progression on SCL10 10 out of 13 tries. Of the other 3 I didn't, I got all but the last 4* shards on 2 of them and only missed the big CP reward on 1 (Deadpool vs MPQ--and this was before I figured out the stunlock team below).

I do have a 5/5/3 level 330 Kitty who is absolutely essential to my clearing: Juggritty on all the non-essential nodes and Gritty on all the essential nodes except the Hard Node where it's the stunlock team of Gamora, my 2/2/2 5* Hawkeye, and CapWorthy. I always use supports but never use boosts.

My standard (except wave nodes) is 4 clears on every node except the easy nodes, where I do the full 7 clears. I'll usually do hard goon-only nodes 7 times also, depending on the goons, just to make sure I have cushion. And while I haven't kept detailed track, there are absolutely nodes I didn't clear 4 times (though usually it's the 5e not the challenge node).

If you read the whole thing you would see that things are different if you have Kitty.

They basically made Kitty a requirement. If you dont have her like me, you need 500+ chars, a champed featured char (which is hard because most of the time is the new chars) or Kitty. Sadly for me, most of the time I am not in any of those groups.

Polares

Daredevil217 said:

Polares said:

I think the same as the post creator, for me PvE scl10 has been a disaster. And if I go back to scl9 then I get less CPs that I used to, but now the release 5s way faster so I can keep up!

They have made scl10 required for all 5 players to keep up with 5s new release cicle, but the difficulty is more for 500+ level 5s players!

Scl10 is too difficult or it should require less repetition. It is either one or the other. I would prefer current difficulty but less repetition myself (2 clears instead of 4), but I would also agree on making it easier.

Also, the extra node was supposed to be EXTRA, it should not be required to get to max progression! 30min per completion is nuts! And if you make a mistake you need to start over (and use 3 health packs).

PS: And there are enemies like the Mindless Ones that clearly need a nerf. They are BONKERS at scl10.
PS: I guess if you have a very strong Kitty, 480+ it is not that bad, but for the people like me that we dont have her covered (the only meta char I dont have!!!!), this is a BIG pain. But again, no single char should be required!!!!

This is it right here.  I'm a 450-460 baby champ 5* player who has all the PVE meta champed (I believe IHulk will be PVP meta and obviously don't have him champed).  I actually like the challenge of 10 and the rewards are spectacular- even for the effort.

They ruined everything by rapidly accelerating 5* releases.  I now play twice as long to make less traction than I did before 10.  10 Should have been a choice for 5* players who would be incentivized by the awesome rewards.  But really, any F2P 5* player or 4-5 transitioner will HAVE to play in 10 if they have any hope of keeping up.  That part really sucks. What it means is the game becomes even more of chore/grind and "if you don't like it, just play down" is not really viable for those who want to keep up.

So 10 is fine by me.  The rewards are fine by me.  The option to choose your CL is fine by me.  Accelerating 5* releases so you play more in order to progress less is NOT okay by me.

I wouldn't mind the difficulty that much if it was just 2 repetitions. It is not that it is way more difficult, that kinda makes it fun, it is that the time requirement is off the charts!!!! Asking for 4 or 5 repetitions is too much. So the problem is difficulty+time.

And yeah, the new release rate is bonkers. There is no way scl9 players can keep up now. 

So now if you are a 5 player, you are forced to play scl10 and play like for 2-3h (just for PvE) every day to get max progression. This has made things awful for me, it is too much time!!!


PS: Also have in mind that difficulty is also very relative to the roster. I have 24 champed 5s, but I dont have Kitty, so even though I have almost all meta chars I dont have the one that would make all of this much much easier. There should not be one char that is required to play or you fail. Strange is very good, but he is no Kitty.

DeNappa

To be honest, I just took 2 weeks 'off' from MPQ because the SCL10 grind really got to me. I know I can play lower, but my roster is generally strong enough to handle SCL10 (except sometimes the challenge or required nodes), and the bump in rewards is significant. The amount of grindwork to whittle down those HP pools is too big, though.

Spudgutter

LavaManLee said:

I really love this game.  I do.  Been playing for over 5 years, have all 3s, 4s and meta 5s champed (well, not IH yet).  But I am really disliking the amount of time it takes to play SCL 10 PVE.

Maybe it's me (and I'm ok if it is) but I feel like it is a slog yet it I don't play SCL 10, the rewards aren't as good and then I get further left in the dust.

Sigh.  It might be time to stop the game but I really don't want to do so.  But also trying to balance the amount of time it takes vs the amount of fun the game is providing.  Again, this could just be me but curious how others feel.

Nail on the head.  I like playing, but hate playing so much, and hate that they restructured the rewards even more.  I don't mind the challenge, the harder matches are fun, but why increase the play time?  That part is what continues to confuse me. 

Somewhere some bean counter is misrepresenting data to show that more play time equals more spending....

Polares

OJSP said:

Polares said:

Also have in mind that difficulty is also very relative to the roster. I have 24 champed 5s, but I dont have Kitty, so even though I have almost all meta chars I dont have the one that would make all of this much much easier. There should not be one char that is required to play or you fail. Strange is very good, but he is no Kitty.

You have Thor, Okoye and Sabretooth. I find they're much better than Gritty to beat CL10 nodes. They can even beat some challenge nodes. Unless Kitty is really high level or we have some good supports, she's not particularly fast in CL10 anyway and she'll need more health packs. So far, I don't think I've used Kitty to beat any of the challenge nodes.

Having said that, the time requirement to play in CL10 has always been my issue since they announced it's coming. I think they are worried that the players with big rosters who used to need only 45 minutes per day to win CL9 might lose interest if CL10 is too easy for them. As a result, everyone else with weaker rosters would need significantly more time to beat the nodes.

I agree the time requirement to play CL10 is a lot compared to CL9 or lower for most players, but I think the CL10 competition for placement is aimed at a really small segment of players who are willing to put that time and effort (whether their roster is ready or not is a different issue. Even some with big rosters play lower CLs if they don't want to commit to the time requirement).

I acknowledge that it's frustrating not to be part of that group while still wanting to progress our roster and not wanting to be left behind. And, you're also not the only one in a similar position. If we look at the placement rewards and progression rewards objectively, getting lower placement in CL10 while getting max progression could still give more rewards than getting a good placement in CL9. Perhaps you might want to try playing the challenge nodes on your free time while grinding the other nodes optimally? Not many people could play optimally or near optimal anyway, and they sometimes still get better placements than people who try to play optimally, but mistime their grinds.

Yeah I have Thor+Okoye+Sabre and I use them sometimes, also HE+worthy, etc, it is just that it is more dangerous (I think) and more health pack intensive than using Kitty+RBR/Rocket/Strange or similar (I might be wrong, maybe I think Kitty is too good, but I dont think so :P). 

The problem with timing is that this game for me is just a "kill time" kind of game, 30-60min a day was more than enough. I have a life and other games I play, so I didn't want to sink more time into this game. And now Devs are asking for more than twice the time we needed before! Not a bit more, more than twice!!! This for me is nuts.

This is why I think if the difficulty stays the same then the number of required completions required for max progression MUST go down. That would be my ideal solution. But one needs to change, or the difficulty or the number of completions required. 

bluewolf

Today I went to SCL9 again for Simulator and was reminded at how insanely big the difference is between 9 and 10.  The fact that every single node in 10 takes significantly longer remains to me a major misstep in its design.

I think to compare the jump you'd have to drop from 9 to 6 to have a comparable difference as you go from 10 to 9.

DeNappa

Polares said:

This is why I think if the difficulty stays the same then the number of required completions required for max progression MUST go down. That would be my ideal solution. But one needs to change, or the difficulty or the number of completions required. 

Without the difficulty it wouldn't be SCL10, so I don't mind that.

Why not run an SCL10 experiment where nodes 'start' at the 3rd grind?

So, the difficulty for your first play would be what the difficulty at 3rd play is now; after your second play it starts losing points as it now does after the 4th play. Of course, point values (and node rewards) would have to be adjusted as well.

LavaManLee

As the OP, I definitely value and appreciate all the comments.  Just to clarify a few items from the original post:

* I do not mind, at all, the difficulty of SCL 10 with each individual node.
* I do mind having to repeat each node 4/5 times for Progression and more if trying to do placement.  Not because of the difficulty but because of the time required for each one.

Yes, I definitely can drop down to SCL9 and will probably do so for Sim.  However, that just leaves me farther behind within the game.  At which point maybe I am just better off leaving.  I am sure that is not D3s intent, but we seem to have a prime example of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

This is certainly JMHO, but D3 made too large a jump between 9 and 10.  They really need a 9.5.  Or maybe points are increased by 50% in 10 so that you can make Prog with the same amount of time needed to make Prog in 9.  Something should be done.

To reiterate, there is a difference between difficulty (how hard is the individual battle) and time needed (how long does the entire sub take to make prog).  And SCL10, again IMHO, takes way too much time to make Prog (let alone try to Place).

Daredevil217

Polares said:

OJSP said:

Polares said:

Also have in mind that difficulty is also very relative to the roster. I have 24 champed 5s, but I dont have Kitty, so even though I have almost all meta chars I dont have the one that would make all of this much much easier. There should not be one char that is required to play or you fail. Strange is very good, but he is no Kitty.

You have Thor, Okoye and Sabretooth. I find they're much better than Gritty to beat CL10 nodes. They can even beat some challenge nodes. Unless Kitty is really high level or we have some good supports, she's not particularly fast in CL10 anyway and she'll need more health packs. So far, I don't think I've used Kitty to beat any of the challenge nodes.

Having said that, the time requirement to play in CL10 has always been my issue since they announced it's coming. I think they are worried that the players with big rosters who used to need only 45 minutes per day to win CL9 might lose interest if CL10 is too easy for them. As a result, everyone else with weaker rosters would need significantly more time to beat the nodes.

I agree the time requirement to play CL10 is a lot compared to CL9 or lower for most players, but I think the CL10 competition for placement is aimed at a really small segment of players who are willing to put that time and effort (whether their roster is ready or not is a different issue. Even some with big rosters play lower CLs if they don't want to commit to the time requirement).

I acknowledge that it's frustrating not to be part of that group while still wanting to progress our roster and not wanting to be left behind. And, you're also not the only one in a similar position. If we look at the placement rewards and progression rewards objectively, getting lower placement in CL10 while getting max progression could still give more rewards than getting a good placement in CL9. Perhaps you might want to try playing the challenge nodes on your free time while grinding the other nodes optimally? Not many people could play optimally or near optimal anyway, and they sometimes still get better placements than people who try to play optimally, but mistime their grinds.

Yeah I have Thor+Okoye+Sabre and I use them sometimes, also HE+worthy, etc, it is just that it is more dangerous (I think) and more health pack intensive than using Kitty+RBR/Rocket/Strange or similar (I might be wrong, maybe I think Kitty is too good, but I dont think so :P). 

The problem with timing is that this game for me is just a "kill time" kind of game, 30-60min a day was more than enough. I have a life and other games I play, so I didn't want to sink more time into this game. And now Devs are asking for more than twice the time we needed before! Not a bit more, more than twice!!! This for me is nuts.

This is why I think if the difficulty stays the same then the number of required completions required for max progression MUST go down. That would be my ideal solution. But one needs to change, or the difficulty or the number of completions required. 

I definitely think you’re overrating Kitty. I would rank Thor, Okoye, Iceman, and Hawkeye as way more important for my CL10 clears than Kitty. She’s by no means essential. 

PiMacleod

My kitty is essential for CL 10.

Probably because i dont have Okoye.

Its one or the other, it seems.

Yes, i have Iceman.  Hes good.  But if the blues dont line up, no stun.  Simple as that.  Ive lost so many matches and health packs due to bad blue tile luck.

I have PX.  And hes great.  But once again, without match 4s and more popping up, hes just a tank.

I dont have Hawk champed.  And Thor just got 13... But whats the point without Okoye.  And no shes not close.

But with Kitty, all you need are SAPs.  So easy.  Supports make them.  Rocket.  Valkyrie.  Carnage.  BRB.  ... Its so easy to get her what she needs.  ...just like Okoye.  Just throw her in with someone who does easy ability damage.

Full circle -- to me, Kitty is essential, and if it wasnt for her, i wouldnt have beaten 80% of my SCL 10 stuff.  (Well... Probably not true... But kitty/rocket/juggs is so good and quick)

Daredevil217

To me Thor is the must-have. I use him and Kitty when the 5E makes specials (Logan, Jessica, Carnage), and I use him and Okoye when they don’t (Havok, Sinister)- but Thor is a must-play as he is the one fueling all the heavy damage powers. 

Hawkeye winfinite is my go-to for challenge nodes that I can’t beat with anyone else. 

And Iceman with Thorkoye is just brutal. The blue only comes in handy when you have tile mover plus two goon challenge nodes to lock down the latter. Otherwise you are playing Bobby for the cheap green that sets up several AOE attacks that when boosted by Okoye will melt the opponent. 

Like I said, I use Kitty as a third and sometimes with Grocket/Juggs when it’s all goons and no tile movers. She’s good. But for reference I’m currently T20 in CL10 sim (probably the hardest PVE) after opening clears. My Havok is 2/2/0 and I didn’t use Kitty for a single node. 

CT1888

One team I use quite a bit that hasn't been mentioned yet isThor/America Chavez/5* essential (when champed or close to). Its one that kinda runs itself, so I can pick away at nodes while I'm doing something else as Thor's board shake gets Chavez going and can set up more crit tiles for the featured 5 to make and profit from. Good Times.

OJSP said:

Imagine playing the 6 wave nodes in Enemy of the State 7 times. 

Yeah, that sounds painful, but at least Gritty/Hela, would make it more fun for me (I love seeing those beefy tiles by the end of wave nodes, and waves 4 - 6 would disappear in a blink) 

PiMacleod

You know, I JUST champed Karnak.  

So, no-brainer, right?  Lets throw together PX, Chavez, and Karnak.

Pros -- Great damage output, with constant board shake.  SO fun when it works!  And pretty good!  Karnak's red and blue lead to good control against CDs and whatnot, when needed.  Otherwise, PX got that good support here!  

Cons -- Needs board luck.  Lets say the board starts WITHOUT a match 4, or even an easy cascade for two simple matches (i.e you get only 1 match 3 to start).  ...welp, buckle in.... it's gonna be a longer match.  I mean, I just had TWO matches back to back like this in SCL10! 

And I could've EASILY won this node and the next with Gritty Juggs by now.  No AP needed.  SAPs are there to start.  Juggs (with a black damage support) matches 3 of the 7 colors.  And with the right supports on, you also have build in fortification for your strikes, so you can even match those when times get tough.

I wish I could get behind this more, and I definitely know how using a +2 AP boost makes this all easier for them, but isn't it funny how one team needs that resource and the other doesn't?

...afterthoughts -- I was SOOO looking forward to using Karnak with Chavez and PX.  Glad it works.  Sad that it isn't nearly as quick or guaranteed as others.

Therealsmkspy

bluewolf said:

Today I went to SCL9 again for Simulator and was reminded at how insanely big the difference is between 9 and 10.  The fact that every single node in 10 takes significantly longer remains to me a major misstep in its design.

I think to compare the jump you'd have to drop from 9 to 6 to have a comparable difference as you go from 10 to 9.

Yeah, I did the same and absolutely noticed it. Much like devs made 5 stars overpowered, skipping an entire tier. SCL 10 feels like they jumped an entire scl level.

bluewolf

Therealsmkspy said:

bluewolf said:

Today I went to SCL9 again for Simulator and was reminded at how insanely big the difference is between 9 and 10.  The fact that every single node in 10 takes significantly longer remains to me a major misstep in its design.

I think to compare the jump you'd have to drop from 9 to 6 to have a comparable difference as you go from 10 to 9.

Yeah, I did the same and absolutely noticed it. Much like devs made 5 stars overpowered, skipping an entire tier. SCL 10 feels like they jumped an entire scl level.

Reading between the lines, I guess that means there will never be an SCL11. Just like there will never be 6*s, the design jump between 4 and 5 was too big.