4* dilution, lowered resources & the 3* farm

krakenoonkrakenoon Posts: 33 Just Dropped In
edited 19 March 2020, 15:23 in MPQ General Discussion
Ever since shards were introduced, some of the non-vets like myself seem to be having trouble truly getting into 4* land.
Now that resources are being adjusted, it's getting harder & harder to make the 1k HP for a new roster slot when you can't really participate higher than SCL7.
This, along with the influx of 3* shards via feeders indicate to me that more of us will need to make tough decisions on whether we dupe or sell max champed 3s.
That said, I'd like to start a list of 3* you should probably keep max champed. It may also be time for a newly updated 4* ranking list  but maybe later.

That said, here is the list I have so far:

Keep any 3*s that might be coming in PvP. Also, be aware of possible cross promotions such as the Black Widow movie. I am assuming anyone in this boat will be playing to at least 25 wins if not 40 or 50.
Make sure that someone can tank any color for 4* Marvel (proper use of her Energy Manipulation turns her into a Dr. Strange equivalent for non-goons).
IM40
Dr. Strange
Deadpool
Thanos(maybe a meat shield like Daken/Rocket & Groot)
Scarlet Witch. I mean, so many reasons.
Black Widow. Targeted tile placement can help a lot with board control.
Kamala Kahn (maybe keep Hulkfinite if it still works against Gritty & you have no other options).
Falcon. I always used him with Strange against goons so redwing can help with countdowns. Now I find his inspiration to be pretty noteworthy.
Patch. True heal still seems relevant in the land between stars.
CMags. His red can deny team up tiles for a couple of teams that want them & hits pretty hard. I have not had much luck using his yellow against enemy special tiles.
Torch. Honestly, just because his powers are fairly cheap & pretty powerful when boosted. Loved him in PvP when he just was.

Possible considerations:
Iron Fist. I still prefer him for black ap generation, some say to keep Cag3 if you keep Fist. The attack tile can help whittle down characters too.
Dr. Doom. While I feel Iron Fist is the better black generator, there is something to be said for blue ap denial.
Hawkguy. True heal & ap generation on special tile match.
Cyclops. Punches up, but more here for his yellow.
Thor. Another tile changer. Though his red only changes 3 tiles & his yellow is a little expensive, his massive pool of health (for a 3*) & overall damage from Call the Storm help.
Quicksilver. His board control is pretty decent, I find there's usually less forever cascades with some locked team up tiles & his blue is not so bad.
Captain Marvel. I never use her myself, but if she procs her energy manipulation often can be a fountain of red/ black ap.

I would also like to hear from newer players just entering or about to enter 4* land. Does it seem like the targeted system & mighty tokens serve to trivialize the need to keep 3*s at a higher level or are you struggling more to make room on your roster for dupes/4* characters?

Edit: This was a big edit Mar 19th to clean this all up.

Comments

  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,012 Chairperson of the Boards
    Any 3* that are fed can pretty much be flipped - I recently max champed a second version of Magneto and am coming up on max champing a second version of Patch, so you can do it in a reasonable timeframe especially if you then Favourite your recycled character so they get the bonus shards. At first I BH'ed both but then a flood of 3* Mags covers and shards put him in the lead so I finished him off first.

    You can also probably safely sell any max-champed 3's who are not normally featured much in Boss Battles who have just had their PvP = i.e. Doc Ock is a good choice for this. However be a little bit careful around any sort of events - last year I sold my max Champ Thor, re-rostered following his PvP thinking this would be fine only for them to run his PvP again in short time for Endgame! That is probably not such a big deal this year but I would for example hang on to 3* Black Widow.

    Otherwise I have a mixture of duped 3* characters, those I flip and and those who are  heading towards their second time to max champ and I find that having that spread helps - for example my dupe max champed Mags gave me the roster slot for Havok.

    I am further along the 4* train than you having everybody and most of them champed so you might still lean on your 3* roster more than I do but really just the common sense ones (IM40 & Strange), if you play Lightning Rounds those ones and those who feature regularly in special events.
  • Ed_DragonriderEd_Dragonrider Posts: 475 Mover and Shaker
    I think this question can only be answered individually on a case by case basis for everyone, there is no one size fits all rosters solution.

    Generally speaking though there are 3 categories for each tier:
    1) must have meta characters
    2) favourite/ I-love-them-no-matter-what-anyone-says characters
    3) all the rest.

    Try keeping as much as you can from the first two categories and dont be shy about flipping the rest.

    It also really depends on what someone plays: pve or pvp or both. Pve takes longer to cycle around, so flipping them after their event might give you time enough to build them back up, but trust me everything always happens at once or never. There is no spaced out in-between. So you might not be able to follow a step by step plan for each character.

    I've actually reached this scenario not long ago... I have about 10 max champed 3*s, that are now in need of dupe-ing or flipping and a handful to follow soon enough. But I do have all 4*s and most 5*s rostered and I only play pve now, so it's not that hard to decide who to dupe and who to flip.
    If it helps I've rostered a dupe for Im40, Dr Strange, Deadpool, Thanos and Switch. I have already flipped Ms Marvel, Thor, Colossus and Kamala. I have a few more covers to decide for Hawkguy, Cmags, BWGS and Star Lord. I guess it'll depend on how much hp I have when they need deciding on.
  • krakenoonkrakenoon Posts: 33 Just Dropped In
    edited 17 March 2020, 23:31
    Thanks for the input, it is appreciated.

    I think Ed's list is a good start, all of the 3*s you mentioned seem to be in heavy rotation for me.

    So here is the list so far.

    IM40
    Dr. Strange
    Deadpool
    Thanos (and freinds/sacrifices)
    Scarlet Witch (add Vision?)
    Black Widow (possible cross promotion PvP/winfinite)
    Ragnarok (for winfinite)
    Star-Lord (charged tile creator/Worthy combo)
    Kamala Kahn (I will probably continue to use Hulkfinite for Kitty nodes for a while)

    Possible considerations

    Iron Fist (as black generator)
    Thor (outclassed quickly as 4* roster gets developed)
    Someone to tank each color for C4rol (use her for black)
    Loki & Falcon both have upcoming shows & unique abilities. Probably a little early for any cross promotion, but I love inspiration, trickery & mischief.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,012 Chairperson of the Boards
    Cyclops has value against Apocalypse and hits hard for a 3* but he never seems to ever be seen as truly top tier. I think probably Kamala Khan deserves a place on the keep list though.
  • krakenoonkrakenoon Posts: 33 Just Dropped In
    Cyclops goes pretty well on my BRB/Profe$$or team. Probably not relevant once I start pumping levels into better 4* options.
    I also enjoy Juggernaut with Patch. The only similar mechanic I can think of is a 3* GoTG to pair with R4G until g4mora is leveled.
    One could also consider similar team mechanics for supports. Quinjet & element guns come to mind.
  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 2,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    If you play LRs and PvPs a lot and care about getting to 18CP in SCL 10 PvP (or the maximum you can reach), having a max champed 3* will help a lot. Anyway, back to your question, these are the 3* that I find useful to have a max champed version:

    1) All characters involved in LRs if you are aiming for top 50 placements.

    2) Dr Strange

    3) Thanos

    4) IM40

    5) Scarlet Witch

    6) Captain Marvel

    7) Thor

    8) Cyclops

    9) Hawkeye

    10) Dr Doom

    11) Iron Fist

    Scarlett Witch is still irritating because of her ability to create purple match-5 that also allow you to gain other aps from row or column destruction.

    Thor, Iron Fist, Dr Doom and Cyclops are in because they are able to create specific colour tiles, which can be helpful to other red/yellow/green/black 4* characters. 

    Hawkeye has true heal and he can help you gain 2 blue and 2 purple ap for every enemy special tile matched by you, and there are many special tile creators in 4* land. Carnage, Medusa, R4G are still common in Shield Simulator.

    Captain Marvel is in because she has high HP and she can help you to generate 5 red ap and 3 black ap by taking damage. I use her to fuel other characters' abilities.

    In 4* land, R4G, Kitty Pryde and Juggernaut are common. Other common characters in 4* land are Prof X, BRB and Carbage. All these teams are high damage dealer and special tile spammers.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,012 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kamala Khan can also create specific colour tiles (green). She will have to start paying me the way I am hyping her here! :D
  • Ed_DragonriderEd_Dragonrider Posts: 475 Mover and Shaker
    krakenoon said:

    So here is the list so far.

    IM40
    Dr. Strange
    Deadpool
    Thanos (and freinds/sacrifices)
    Scarlet Witch (add Vision?)
    Black Widow (possible cross promotion PvP/winfinite)
    Ragnarok (for winfinite)
    Star-Lord (charged tile creator/Worthy combo)
    Kamala Kahn (I will probably continue to use Hulkfinite for Kitty nodes for a while)

    I reckon your best way to consider would be to think on who is most valuable during boss events. For me among 3*s the #1 best is BWGS usually paired with IM40. Her precision board control puts her above everyone else. (She can also tank green for C4rol, if that is important to you). Even when you have 4*s at your disposal, board control is a valuable tool, worth hanging onto as long as possible.
    Think, who is best in spidey v s6, when you have 3 waves of random boss villain combos? Who do you use for those for best effect? Keep them! :)

    Everyone plays differently, and values characters differently, so some characters might make sense to me more or fit my style more. At the same time other players will think that same character useless. So with that said, and not meaning to offend, but why on earth would you ever want to keep Vision?? To me he is next to worthless, and I only use him when absolutely forced to. Same with Ragnarok if I'm being honest... I absolutely love love love Star Lord though. To me he is far more useful and better than Kamala (who is also great, not saying she isn't) and so I had no problem deciding which of them to flip/dupe.

    Possible considerations

    Iron Fist (as black generator)
    Thor (outclassed quickly as 4* roster gets developed)
    Someone to tank each color for C4rol (use her for black)

    Loki & Falcon both have upcoming shows & unique abilities. Probably a little early for any cross promotion, but I love inspiration, trickery & mischief.
    If you want to keep IF, you might want to keep Cag3 with him. Together they're good in pvp and are often boosted at the same time.
    Thor is outclassed quickly. Period. (*Looks lovingly at 4* Juggernaut*)
    Your 'definitely keep' list already has plenty who can tank for C4rol. You can also use supports to help tweak numbers. She shines best with other 4*s I'm afraid, although Loki can generate lots of CDs for her and Daken or Blade can produce tiles enough for her to buff.

    Without knowing more specifics about both your roster and your play style I think this is the best I can do here for now. Hope it helps any.


  • HoundofShadowHoundofShadow Posts: 2,564 Chairperson of the Boards
    My list is meant for PvPs and Shield Simulator. For PvEs, if you are playing competitively, there are not many choices, and they are obvious if you have been here reading around.

    Back in 3* land, IM40, Patch, Human Torch and Hawkeye were my top PvE teams. 

    The list changes depending on which 4* you have changed and who are those that will be champed.

    If you can show us your roster, the quality of advices given to you will increase significantly.
  • krakenoonkrakenoon Posts: 33 Just Dropped In
    edited 18 March 2020, 14:37
    My apologies for any confusion here. While I do plan to use any advice I get here, the primary goal is to provide this list for non-vets once they start hitting 4*s. As of now, it seems to be getting harder & harder to get 1k HP over 14 days without spending & my recent VIP experience seems to indicate that the bonus rewards from monthly pittance purchases is still not enough to shore that up. The increase in 3* drop rate/shards seems to indicate that this will be an issue for more and more players as 4* glut grows, but the new release schedule may help. Unfortunately, it's all speculation without any input from newer players.
    The main reason for Loki, Vision, & even Falcon being on the list is future proofing for possible cross promotion around their Disney+ shows.
    That said, I did think about adding 3* Marvel to the list, but I just never use her. I was also considering Torch after seeing him boosted in recent PvP events, the difference is night & day.
    I will probably update the list today or tomorrow. I am also wondering if a new meta 4* list is in order since all of the recent changes. Again, the idea here is that D3 has pushed the post HP game back with shards & possibly removed it all together with the new release schedule.

    Edit: This list should be for PvP & PvE considering how hard it is to make progress with just PvE these days unless you can hit a better SCL. I'm still assuming it's max SCL7 until players develop a healthy 4* roster or at least grocket & G4amora.
  • jp1jp1 Posts: 605 Critical Contributor
    Flipping all 3s as soon as I roster a dupe myself. 

    I find them to be insignificant in my gameplay style. Still, it stings a little each time...even going on my fourth flip for some of my heavy rotation pulls.
  • OmegasedOmegased Posts: 61 Match Maker
    once you're fully in 4star land, you'll only use the occasional 3 (strange/IM40 are the two most important).

    Ultimately, it can depend on how you play. if you play lots of PVP, then ideally you'd like your 3s at a high level. if it's mainly PVE you play - as long as you have them in the roster you can recycle without needing a new slot. I think a mix of having maxxed 3s and recycle others is a good option. i'm in 5star land, but keep a few at 266 that are important (Strange, Hawkeye for the galactus fight, IM40, quicksilver for the kalicius fight,switch, iron fist, daken.) everyone else i recycle.


  • jp1jp1 Posts: 605 Critical Contributor
    Plenty of options for K Silly in 4* land. I can see not flipping Strange, SWitch, Kamala, and a couple others though. Once ISO deficit has been dealt with Ill probably start hanging on to some max champ 3s.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 4,012 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sabretooth and 4* Elektra handle KSilly just fine, I sometimes through in a Patch.
  • krakenoonkrakenoon Posts: 33 Just Dropped In
    Ok. Threw a big edit at the OP, might need some more formatting to clean it up.
    I plan to drop the other list further down, so any replies with quotes from there will look pretty odd.
    What do you think so far?
  • ZootSaxZootSax Posts: 1,739 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:
    Kamala Khan can also create specific colour tiles (green). She will have to start paying me the way I am hyping her here! :D
    Related to this and sometimes as important, because you choose the first tile, she also helps deny a color so she’s useful even if you don’t rely on green.
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