Carbage or Havok?

LavaManLee

The age old question.  Do I try to champ  Carbage before he leaves or wait until Havok enters?  My Carbage is 3/3/4 so still need three and only have about 40 pulls.  Could save them for Havok but can't tell if he is really that much better.  BRB is already champed and I only have a 0/0/1 Sinister.  Decisions, decisions.

Vhailorx

Probably wait.

BRB pulls are wasted on you, and your carnage is both decently covered and had an even build.  You should be able to cover him naturally from shards rewards whole he a latest and feeders.

Do you have kitty?  Carnage is good with Ben and kitty, but I don't know if they are so good that you must chase carnage now.

Daredevil217

Havok honestly seems like one of the more boring 5* characters we’ve had in awhile. He’s a pure red/blue beat stick who does big damage for small costs.  He’s definitely a GOOD character, but his minuscule red/green AP shuffle is probably the most unique thing about his kit. He’ll pretty much fit on any team that needs his colors and is way more versatile though. 

Carnage on the other hand is more niche. He plays well with very specific partners. And he’s mostly used as a defensive deterrent. If Bishop ever gets nerfed, I’d say Carnage with his best partners is better than Havok with his. But Havok plays better with more partners. So it all depends on what you’re looking for and who else you have champed IMO. 

If I were you I’d hoard until right until he’s about to leave and see how many pulls you have then. Problem is we have no idea when that’ll be as the once established pattern is now seemingly up in the air. One day you’ll wake up and he’ll just be gone.

wymtime

Havok is greater than Canage.  I have Carnage at level 456 and he has some unique mechanics but he will not be as strong as Havok.  Havok going from blue to red will so close to 40K direct damage and you will have 3 blue charge tiles on the board to get back to 7 blue.  Green even at level 3 gives an ok AOE that will remove 3 enemy special tiles.  Havok will also be a great partner for Professor X slowing Professor X to avoid more damage.

Every one of Havok’s active powers does great damage.  For red only IW cap is better, blue no other power does his direct damage and even the AOE is not bad. His Green at level 5 is only worse than Thanos, BRB, BB(conditions) and Thor.  Up to 12k AOE is still high for a AOE.

carnage red for comparison with 4 special tiles out does 11K AOE and 1100 team damage.  His Green is bad as an active and his black strike tiles are still weak for 5* land.

scottee

Havok is definitely the better character, but it depends on what levels you play at.

If you're solidly in 4* land and looking to move up to 5*, you need the 5* champed at 450. A 10 cover 5* isn't much better than champed 4*s when boosted. 

If you're solidly in 5* land, then it depends on who else you have to pair with Carnage.

I agree on hoarding for several weeks and seeing how many pulls you have. Then you can make the decision right before Carnage leaves LTs.

Therealsmkspy

Kinda in the same boat. Got a champed 454 Carnage, but BRB is only 7 covers and just have 1 Sinister.

Really debating on whether to stop pulling til Havok enters latest. I'm a pull as you go guy, so hoarding is very difficult for me.

LavaManLee

Thanks for all the feedback.  I do have a champed Kitty and solidly play in 5* land (SCL10 for most events).  I am not a hoarder by nature but just may have to do so for now.

Vhailorx

scottee said:

Havok is definitely the better character, but it depends on what levels you play at.

If you're solidly in 4* land and looking to move up to 5*, you need the 5* champed at 450. A 10 cover 5* isn't much better than champed 4*s when boosted. 

If you're solidly in 5* land, then it depends on who else you have to pair with Carnage.

I agree on hoarding for several weeks and seeing how many pulls you have. Then you can make the decision right before Carnage leaves LTs.

Straight up, i think it's pretty clear that havok > carnage .  But that isn't really the best analysis IMO.  A better frame of reference might be to ask "will havok be a more important part of any useful meta teams as compared to Carnage?"

It's a bit hard to say with havok, but mostly he just seems like a damage stick.  Add a red or blue (or to a lesser extent green) battery and he does pretty efficient damage.  that's nice.  But we already have several pretty good damage sticks for all of those colors in 5* land.  So havok must be significantly more efficient than the existing tools, or his other support abilities (making charged tiles, overwriting special tiles, and engaging in AP arbitrage) must bring something unique.  I don't think his charged tile generation is very special, and there are lots of SAP overwriters, nor is he wildly more efficient than existing damage dealers.  So arbitrage is his one special thing, and I don't know if that will be enough.

Meanwhile carnage had a niche roll with BRB and/or kitty.  Both really leverage his passive tile generation and mitigate the enemy tiles he makes.  He is good as a defensive scarecrow (though not clearly better than other good combos like BRB or strange + bishop, or gritty, or HE/worthy).  He is basically worthless outside of these combos.

I think it's a pretty close call as between havok and carnage, but since TC has a decent number of covers for carnage already, and doesn't get much marginal value from extra BRB covers, waiting seems like the slightly more efficient strategy.

ThaRoadWarrior

For my playstyle, I like the idea of a finished Carbage more than Havok. Havok feels like Nova to me - just...fine I guess. I think the second turn you get from Carbage isn't to be under-estimated. He doesn't hit that hard directly, but he really keeps the board moving for better or worse. He can really help a Professor X team out chasing mach-4s. My own Carbage is 4/1/4, so take that with a grain of salt over these other folks who have him champed already. I just prefer the novelty to spend AP, do some damage on primarily popular colors.

Vhailorx

Nova is better than havok (adjusting for tier) because he has a more versatility.  He can disable opponents and create strike tiles.  Havok can't even spam his cheap blue of you don't have enough red/green ap. 

Captain_Carlman

The way I look at it is one of the character's nickname is a play on the word "garbage" because he is not very good, that should be your answer right there.

TPF Alexis

Captain_Carlman said:

The way I look at it is one of the character's nickname is a play on the word "garbage" because he is not very good, that should be your answer right there.

He's actually turned out to be significantly better than thought when that nickname was coined. Especially with the right partners, one of whom (BRB) was still in the future when Carnage was announced.

Taganov

Champ Carbage. He's got synergy. Havok might in the future, but until then he'll generally see play only when boosted/featured.

atomzed

I echo Vhailorx assessment. 

Havoc is better than Carnage in a vacuum. 

But MPQ is played with 3 characters and you have a full roster to select from. 

If Havoc is going to be one of your first few 5*, then I will say go for Havoc. He hits harder than Carnage, and can be one of the centre piece of the team. 

If however you have a deep roster, then Carnage may be a better option. I speak from experience cos I have him and BRB recently champ, and I think he works really well with BRB. In fact, the two of them is a sufficient deterrent for me that I may skip the team if the points are Low. If you have kitty, then the trio of Carnage-BRB-Kitty is a wonderful floating team in sims. 

For me, I would choose Carnage because his niche ability is much more useful for me than the damage stick of Havoc.