Daredevil217's 5* Character Ranking and Analysis (Updated 2/14/2021)

PiMacleod

Hey @Daredevil217

Thoughts on Onslaught now?  Some time has passed...

I ask because I'm ONE cover away from champing him, and after playing him with my champed ProfX, I can see a potential 'winfinite' team, using Nightcrawler.  Sure, this isnt a defense team.  But his blue helps to manipulate the board so easily, so that Prof X can go crazy again.  I've had a couple games go CLOSE to winfinite, but there's usually a stumbling point where an enemy dies, and the color swap of Onslaught's blue gets switched up, and thus, so does the combo layout of the board.  I'm figuring Nightcrawler will help to alleviate that with a quick Bamf when an enemy dies, to make the board accessible again.

But, hey, maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture here.  I'm only pointing him out because I've had good success with him, whereas, say Yelena, I've only had success against AP generating teams, such as BRB, goons, half-Thor, etc.  Sure, she's good, but it's situational, and frankly, a situation that I can't control.  At least with Onslaught, I can steer my team towards what AP I'm grabbing (in this case, purple and blue).

Any insight?

ThaRoadWarrior

I have a 1/3/2 Onslaught, with a pair of shard covers on deck, but i'm waiting until Apocalypse leaves to pull anything. Even with his green only doing Match 5 Stuff, he was pretty fun for my playstyle in his recent feature. I find his blue to be very useful, even if that is just to color swap for Match-Ns. It's a shame his active overlaps with Sinister, I think that pair could be pretty impressive if you were creating cascades on purple with Onslaught vs blue. I do think that Onsluaght's purple is kind of a miss for me, but I am looking forward to experimenting more with him after I get more covers.

Colognoisseur

I would also point out that “one-trick” Onslaught is the killer of your  Real No. 1. Use him with Prof X or Apocalypse and all those Bishop teams go down easy peasy. I’ve spent the last day of Sim using all three to drive a bulldozer through the Bishop wall. Onslaught changed things enough I no longer care if they nerf him because through design he is almost irrelevant. So if Hawkeye is No. 8 Onslaught should be right there. IMO over Hawkeye. 

atomzed

Colognoisseur said:

I would also point out that “one-trick” Onslaught is the killer of your  Real No. 1. Use him with Prof X or Apocalypse and all those Bishop teams go down easy peasy. I’ve spent the last day of Sim using all three to drive a bulldozer through the Bishop wall. Onslaught changed things enough I no longer care if they nerf him because through design he is almost irrelevant. So if Hawkeye is No. 8 Onslaught should be right there. IMO over Hawkeye. 

I echo Colog’s view about Onslaught. On paper, Onslaught does not look that good. But when i play him, he’s really fun. When coupled with PX, it’s cascades galore.... I think he deserve a higher rating 

Daredevil217

I’m glad those who have him champed think he’s better than advertised. I still haven’t champed him yet, so hoping you’re right!  Waiting for Poc to rotate. I do like him a lot in PVE when boosted essential. He’s very slow after the first nuke, but fun. I just don’t see what he brings to a roster that has all the heavy hitters champed. I also haven’t had problems disposing of him in PVP when paired with Prof or Apoc (once I forgot to heal my characters before entering and fell to a big nuke... but aside from that!). 

jp1

I looked into him as well, not champed yet...but 10 covers and leveled, I was underwhelmed. I’m assuming his green needs to hit the match 4 mark for him to shine.

What makes him good against Bishop?

ThaRoadWarrior

He makes it so you can Profe$$or X stomp him out on a match 4 pretty easily by increasing your cascade odds I imagine.

MadScientist

jp1 said:

What makes him good against Bishop?

A match-4 on the starting board is usually enough to kill Bishop (and Worthy Cap) instantly from Professor X's and Onslaught's passive damage.

jp1

Time for an update? The real number one has fallen, as well as HE’s partner in crime. The people need to know.

Due to your Loki suggestion I decided to try this team:

HE/Loki/Apoc 

It actually works quite nice. Especially given that my HE is only 3/3/3. Plus it takes Loki off the bench. So, thanks for that.

ThaRoadWarrior

I wonder if Danver5 is going to see some momentum now that Polaris is a thing as well.

ThaRoadWarrior

I just got my Onslaught champed - he is one of those characters that just seems attached at the hip to a specific other character the way G4mora was for a long time only ever used to boost 4ocket. For Onslaught, it's very hard not to pair him up with Profe$$or X with the powerset he's equipped with. That team is very fun, and it can punch up pretty well with the amount of board control you get. I use a 5/3/5 X on that team, and I've been experimenting with 3rd wheels like Carbage for the extra turn. It had staying power, but it wasn't fast in PVE. I'll keep playing around with him, try and get some other teams moving to see how he fares without his daddy watching out for him.

ThaRoadWarrior

In Pick-3, i've started running Onslaught (lvl 451)/Profe$$or X (lvl 462)/Jessica Jones(lvl 451), because even 11 levels lower than PX, he still completely outweighs him on match damage and has strongest color purple. So this team is really cascade happy, and JJ's traps can fuel PX's purple when you fall into them pretty regularly. 

BlackBoltRocks

@ThaRoadWarrior you should also post about your Onslaught teams in his character thread

Daredevil217

Phew! Thread updated.  I even added entries for Daken and Heimdall despite them being nowhere near champed.  I figure I can always edit/update if they don't play the way I think they do in theory.  Had to go through and edit a lot with the Angel buff, Bish/Cap nerfs, Polaris being introduced, etc.  Also, having actually played Onslaught, I do think he's better than I gave him credit for.  Offensively, i like him as an AP factory with the cascades, not just as an Xavier partner.  Killmonger I've found to be pretty bland on the other hand.  Anyway, as always, I hope you all enjoy.  Check the summary at the end to see where people rose/fell compared to the last update.

helix72

Great work as always @Daredevil217 ! But I do have a couple disagreements:

1) I would put Apocalypse above iHulk. In PvP, I don't run from iHulk fights, I just bring BRBitty and boost blue and red. The board gets flooded with Protect tiles and Attack tiles in no time, which Kitty keeps boosting. Sometimes it's fun to just keep iHulk in front, deny Red and Yellow, and let him keep generating Protects for me and Blue and Green AP while every time he goes down he damages Okoye and because she's in the back, her TU slowly drains away...

And while iHulk + Okoye + Valkyrie is a great team on PvE to save on healthpacks, if it's against tile movers and anyone on the enemy team chases Green, I've had multiple turns where there wasn't enough Green on the board to fire his passive. And if you do have anyone making special tiles, remember only basic tiles count towards the Green tile trigger. So pairing him with Apoc and firing Yellow or BRB and firing Blue can sometimes get in the way of iHulk's passive firing.

On the other hand, Apoc's powers are so cheap, and supports that give you Yellow on start of battle are so numerous (Korg, Vintage Shield, Avengers Tower, Sanctum Sanctorum, SP//DR), running 1/2 Thor + Apoc + BRB has become my go to for SCL10 PvE. And if I'm against anyone with a stun, you can bet I'm bringing Apoc to the fight and I laugh while the AI wastes their AP on stuns that don't work (I'm looking at you, 1* Venom). Meanwhile, my iHulk collects dust on the PvE shelf.

And let's not forget that while Apoc's HP pool is enormous (I often get all my opening clears without a single healthpack), iHulk takes damage every time he makes a match and usually sucks down several.

If you asked whether I'd part with Apoc or iHulk first, I would lay my iHulk at your feet in a heartbeat. I should point out, I have a baby champ Okoye, so maybe a 550 Okoye makes it more worth it. But shouldn't that credit go to Okoye not iHulk?

2) Captain Marvel: While she is a one-trick pony, that one trick is an important and powerful trick. Where HE + Worthy used to get me through SCL10 challenge nodes, now it's BRB, Polaris, and Captain Marvel. The new winfinite has given me something I had not gotten before: a reliable 5 clears of every challenge node, fast enough to have high PvE placement, and with the right support on BRB (Carol's Communicator), usually with BRB at full health by the end of each clear. I know it seems a aggressive, as there is only one team I run her with, and I would NEVER use her in PvP (I did in Simulator but the retals were brutal), the challenge node is so important and she is so key for me beating it I'd put her in the top 10.

Now, maybe one challenge is there are others who can do what she does with BRB and Polaris: 4* Thanos for example. But he's 1) much slower than CapM, 2) has fewer HP than CapM, and 3) doesn't have a power like CapM's Red that can help put more special tiles on the board.

As crazy as it sounds, if I had to choose between her and iHulk, I'd also lay down iHulk in a heartbeat.

For me, the must haves, the characters I use all the time (none higher than 459) are:

PvE
Thor
Apocalypse
BRB
Kitty
Captain Marvel (CN only)

PvP
Kitty
BRB
Apocalypse

I'm pretty sure if I had more levels on my Okoye, she'd make it back on the list for PvE.

Daredevil217

helix72 said:

Great work as always @Daredevil217 ! But I do have a couple disagreements:

1) I would put Apocalypse above iHulk. In PvP, I don't run from iHulk fights, I just bring BRBitty and boost blue and red. The board gets flooded with Protect tiles and Attack tiles in no time, which Kitty keeps boosting. Sometimes it's fun to just keep iHulk in front, deny Red and Yellow, and let him keep generating Protects for me and Blue and Green AP while every time he goes down he damages Okoye and because she's in the back, her TU slowly drains away...

And while iHulk + Okoye + Valkyrie is a great team on PvE to save on healthpacks, if it's against tile movers and anyone on the enemy team chases Green, I've had multiple turns where there wasn't enough Green on the board to fire his passive. And if you do have anyone making special tiles, remember only basic tiles count towards the Green tile trigger. So pairing him with Apoc and firing Yellow or BRB and firing Blue can sometimes get in the way of iHulk's passive firing.

On the other hand, Apoc's powers are so cheap, and supports that give you Yellow on start of battle are so numerous (Korg, Vintage Shield, Avengers Tower, Sanctum Sanctorum, SP//DR), running 1/2 Thor + Apoc + BRB has become my go to for SCL10 PvE. And if I'm against anyone with a stun, you can bet I'm bringing Apoc to the fight and I laugh while the AI wastes their AP on stuns that don't work (I'm looking at you, 1* Venom). Meanwhile, my iHulk collects dust on the PvE shelf.

And let's not forget that while Apoc's HP pool is enormous (I often get all my opening clears without a single healthpack), iHulk takes damage every time he makes a match and usually sucks down several.

If you asked whether I'd part with Apoc or iHulk first, I would lay my iHulk at your feet in a heartbeat. I should point out, I have a baby champ Okoye, so maybe a 550 Okoye makes it more worth it. But shouldn't that credit go to Okoye not iHulk?

2) Captain Marvel: While she is a one-trick pony, that one trick is an important and powerful trick. Where HE + Worthy used to get me through SCL10 challenge nodes, now it's BRB, Polaris, and Captain Marvel. The new winfinite has given me something I had not gotten before: a reliable 5 clears of every challenge node, fast enough to have high PvE placement, and with the right support on BRB (Carol's Communicator), usually with BRB at full health by the end of each clear. I know it seems a aggressive, as there is only one team I run her with, and I would NEVER use her in PvP (I did in Simulator but the retals were brutal), the challenge node is so important and she is so key for me beating it I'd put her in the top 10.

Now, maybe one challenge is there are others who can do what she does with BRB and Polaris: 4* Thanos for example. But he's 1) much slower than CapM, 2) has fewer HP than CapM, and 3) doesn't have a power like CapM's Red that can help put more special tiles on the board.

As crazy as it sounds, if I had to choose between her and iHulk, I'd also lay down iHulk in a heartbeat.

For me, the must haves, the characters I use all the time (none higher than 459) are:

PvE
Thor
Apocalypse
BRB
Kitty
Captain Marvel (CN only)

PvP
Kitty
BRB
Apocalypse

I'm pretty sure if I had more levels on my Okoye, she'd make it back on the list for PvE.

1) If you take a look at PVP past 800 points, it’s all Hulkoye and BRBitty. So while you might sacrifice your Hulk, it seems like Apocalypse is the one getting sacrificed when it comes to the PVP meta game. And saying that ONE team counters Hulkoye is not really a great argument when Apocalypse doesn’t need a special team to counter him. Just deny yellow. Also, Hulkoye will be the answer once everyone champs Polaris. Polaris punishes all the special tile users in the 5* tier (Kitty, Bill, Apoc, Carnage, etc. ). Hulkoye can down Polaris teams easy without giving them any ammunition whatsoever as they are the rare meta team that doesn’t rely on special tiles. There’s a ton of value in that.  In PVE,  I use the same team as you do for my opening grind (Apoc), but end grind when the health pools are higher, I have to sub Apoc out for Okoye. I think Hulk is more important to both metas, but really it’s one spot difference either way.

2) While I can appreciate you now having the ability to 5-clear with Carol, I’ve never had a problem 7-clearing with Clint (and never once used Worthy to do it). I’m sure supports and what levels your characters are at play a big role in what winfinite team you prefer. I admittedly might need to try the Polaris/Bill team more. Clint is a top 10 staple on my roster the way Carol is on yours, but the fact that both options exist dropped Hawkeye significantly and raised Carol. Whereas before Polaris, Hawkeye was the only non-risky winfinite option (Vulture/Hulk was a higher risk option for those without Clint). Hawkeye got higher marks because like I said, I prefer his winfinite (I’ve gotten good at triggering deadliest woman), he’s a better character outside of their winfinite shenanigans, and there are other options to pair with Billaris (basically any green or blue board smasher). She’s the least important part of that combo. If I bring myself to deviate from Coul/Hawk and play with Billaris more I could see bumping her in the rankings. I’m curious to hear people’s perceptions of Billaris vs. CoulHawk winfinites. 

MadScientist

Some thoughts:

Captain Marvel is not essential to the Bill-Polaris infinity team. She can be substituted by 4* Thanos, 3* Storm, 2* Storm, 4* The Thing (?), even 1* Juggernaut may do.

Immortal Hulk together with Vulture is one of the few teams that can take a 1-cover 5-star character through the last clears of the 5E-node in CL10 for some of the nastier enemies. 

jp1

I maintain that Th4nos is the better option in the Polaris winfinite. Maybe it is my supports, my CM is 471...it’s just too slow to fill the board enough for her to reliably cycle her green. With Th4nos it is usually by the third turn due to his destruction pattern.

ThaRoadWarrior

I'm still working on my Danver5, I need 2x more green covers before she's viable for that tile spam winfinite. Right now I use Th4nos, and it works reliably unless i get a weaksauce starting board. I find it more useful and less harrowing than Hawkeye, but there does exist the possibility of Deadliest Woman ending things early.

But these days in PVE SCL10, I'm running 50% Thor (5/0/2)/Apocalypse/Okoye on the harder nodes and the challenge nodes through 4x clears on most events, and that team is very reliable and about as fast as anything my roster can put together. Basically you chase yellow early, fire off apocalypse once, then start chasing team ups and yellow as often as you can. Thor will feed Apocalypse's red before you know it, and Wakanda Forever! will double dip on top of the Apocalypse yellow boost, and you can pound most of those challenge nodes into the dirt real quick. Apocalypse tanks nearly everything, leaving green for Thor and team up and yellow for Okoye (i have a 4* RTF on her, so it's possible that's why she tanks yellow). I say that to chime in that i too find Apocalypse more valuable than iHulk on any given day. I use Okoye/iHulk to fast-climb pvp to 500 and that's about it. Since I'm not playing for placement, I really only use him because he's offensively quick, not because he's defensively strong.

gbdubs

I've found apoc/BRB/polaris to pretty incredible in PVE. I use tinkerer to boost apoc black which means I can usually fire his black after a match which triggers both polaris and brb powers. From there's it's off to the races.