Base defeat penalty ridiculous

Halo2727
Halo2727 Posts: 3 Just Dropped In
in GI Joe General Discussion
Posting this again until a developer response. I lost 40 trophies in 2 hours earlier today. That’s ridiculous. If you gain 120 per day and you lose 33% in the span of 2 hours how does that make sense? Other raid based games have a 24 hour minimum safe base reset time of you get attacked. You need to add that in. It is really frustrating and causing me to think about leaving.
«1

Comments

  • Halo2727
    Halo2727 Posts: 3 Just Dropped In
    Self explanatory here. You should not lose 20 trophies every time your base goes down. Considering what you earn for a win it’s too large
  • Halo2727
    Halo2727 Posts: 3 Just Dropped In
    Replaying to my own post as I have now lost EVERY TROPHY I gained yesterday. How is it fun to have a game where you lose all the progress you made?
  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    Yeah, I agree this is frustrating.  It also shouldn't be 1:1.  Let's face it, the game is intentionally tilted towards the active player winning (most games are), so the "loss penalty" should be much smaller than the "win gain".  Like maybe 1/5 or 1/10 if your bot-controlled base loses.
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    *Merged same topic threads together
  • IceXman49
    IceXman49 Posts: 9 Just Dropped In
    Throwing out a lot of ideas here beyond just the base penalty. Please move comments if wrong place.

    The base defeat penalty should be something like -5. Having it at -20 is too steep considering you can max at +120 in 24 hours. Or give more cargo rewards in shorter period of time to balance it out.

    The invasion penalty should go away as you have no control over that. How about implement a timer to deal with invasions, where you get +40 in the first 24 hours, and the standard +20 after that.  


  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm curious how they determine trophies lost. I have gotten -5 and -20 trophies when my HQ was defeated. 

    I'm not sure how accurate this is but what I see from my Activity Logs are players whose player level is lower than mine will take away 20 trophies, but those whose levels are higher than mine takes away 5 trophies.

    Maybe you guys can check your Activity Logs and see if that's the case for you.
  • Stalker
    Stalker Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
    HoundofShadow said:
    I'm curious how they determine trophies lost. I have gotten -5 and -20 trophies when my HQ was defeated. 

    I'm not sure how accurate this is but what I see from my Activity Logs are players whose player level is lower than mine will take away 20 trophies, but those whose levels are higher than mine takes away 5 trophies.

    Maybe you guys can check your Activity Logs and see if that's the case for you.
    My understanding is we lose -5 when a tile of our map is taken, but lose -20 when our actual HQ is successfully attacked
  • Col_chappy_st_clair
    Col_chappy_st_clair Posts: 2 Just Dropped In
    I just lost 65 trophys! And I still have 10 hours till my next attack. 55 trophys to invasion and 10 to attack on my base.  This needs to addressed. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2020
    @Stalker I'm not referring to invasion. I saw -5, -10, -20 trophies when my HQ was defeated (red tab).

    I think I might have found a causal relation between number of trophies lost and the level of opponents who defeat your HQ.

    If the player who defeated your HQ has:

    Higher Level: - 5 trophies
    Same Level: - 10 trophies
    Lower level: - 20 trophies




  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    @HoundofShadow I think this makes sense.  I also see when selecting opponents that the worst case is a +20/-20 risk and the best, which are often higher levels (but sometimes not, so maybe win percentages?) are +25/-10 or +30/-5

    Here's an example where I'm level 12, he's level 8, but I still have the +25/-10 scoring opportunity.


  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2020
    I think, on offense, the calculations might be different. I haven't observed much yet. 

    I looked at all my opponents for both factions on the map and out of 27 red nodes, 26 of them shows me 20/-20 scoring opportunities and all of them have lower levels than mine. The other one shows me 25/-10 and he's same level as me. I have more tropies than him but fewer wins than him. 

    Part 2: I just unlocked 11 more areas and saw this player who has the same level as me giving me 25/-10. It brings the count to 2/28 that give me 25/-10. However, this guy has fewer wins and fewer trophies than me.

    Could it be possible that the player was already visible while you were at level 7? It's just that you didn't notice him until now.
  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    HoundofShadow said:


    Could it be possible that the player was already visible while you were at level 7? It's just that you didn't notice him until now.
    Totally could be possible.
  • Galvatronus
    Galvatronus Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
    I'm lending my voice to this thread, the defeat math is not sustainable.  Unless you pay diamonds or $, you get 6 battles a day to actually win trophies.  I get attacked or invaded far more than that in a 24 hour period and so am treading water at best with trophies.  Even with all defenses maxed for my HQ level, I lose a lot of battles and get invaded on top of that.  Very frustrating.  Invasion penalty makes no sense given I receive no trophies when I "invade" yet lose trophies when I'm invaded.  Plus, if I battle with maxed battle cargo I don't win trophies if I win a battle but I DO lose trophies if I lose a battle.  It seems the system is weighted more towards losing trophies than winning them.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I tried my theory and the system doesn't seem to re-calculate the score when you level up.

    @Galvatronus what level are you at? For my experience, I lose about 40 to 50 trophies a day on average via defeat of my HQ. I have no idea where those invasion losses of -5 came from, but it adds another -40 trophies. I end up with a net of + 30 to 40 trophies. Do you also have a lot of resources piled up?

    Since the main revenue of this game seems to be diamonds, they will be putting pressure and letting players make tough choices. If you want to speed up time and gain more trophies, you have to pay ~250 diamonds to reduce the wait time by 24 hours. If you want to earn more cargoes, you need to use diamond to speed things up to make space for more cargoes.

    Probably, the dev might want to share their rationale for the trophy wins and losses calculation.

  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    @HoundofShadow

    The -5 invasions are just giving you the opportunity to attack someone and is an encroachment on your land.  It is a double tax of sorts.  You'll also take the -5 hit if you "replace" an enemy and that feels like a triple tax of sorts...
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    So, the actual trophy win is only 10. We can't escape from paying taxes.  :D

    Thank you for the explanation.
  • Stalker
    Stalker Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
    Definitely don’t clear the map past the 6/6 cargo boxes. Each slot replaced will net -5 trophies. My ocd to clear the map each night before bed cost me early on til I learned more about this terribad system 
  • Grymda
    Grymda Posts: 2 Just Dropped In
    Anyone else notice that some base defense losses are because the game alters your base setup making it impossible to survive?  Earning points to progress battle tiers is hard enough without setting us up to fail.  In the last day I earned 160 points and lost 75, most to the -5 resupply,
  • Stalker
    Stalker Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
    Grymda said:
    Anyone else notice that some base defense losses are because the game alters your base setup making it impossible to survive?  Earning points to progress battle tiers is hard enough without setting us up to fail.  In the last day I earned 160 points and lost 75, most to the -5 resupply,
    Yes, the tank blocks and other glitches were still around after the patch. Didn’t see that on all my base attacks thankfully 
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    Stalker said:
    Grymda said:
    Anyone else notice that some base defense losses are because the game alters your base setup making it impossible to survive?  Earning points to progress battle tiers is hard enough without setting us up to fail.  In the last day I earned 160 points and lost 75, most to the -5 resupply,
    Yes, the tank blocks and other glitches were still around after the patch. Didn’t see that on all my base attacks thankfully 
    That bug should be fixed in the upcoming 1.1.1 build version.

Categories