POLL: Special Supports???

bk1234

How often would you like to see special supports in events?

bk1234

I would like them in some events.

“Be moderate in order to taste the joys of life in abundance.”  ― Epicurus

Avahad

I have another opinion (please explain).

I would prefer them not to be in any coalition events- it’s frustrating enough that bugs can turn a good effort for the team into a nightmare but the ‘special’ supports add a complexity and more opportunity for crashes if not fully tested/checked. 

Mburn7

I would like them in some events.

I kind of find this  hilarious, to be honest.

When Enraged first came out, pretty much everyone agreed it was awesome, and we should see it more.

The devs responded by putting it in EVERY event, until we had to start a petition to get them to stop.

Then we got special node supports, and pretty much everyone agreed it was really cool and we should see it more

The devs responded by putting it in EVERY event and now we're starting a petition to get them to stop.

To be fair it's two different dev teams, but the cyclical nature of things still tickles my funny bone.

Personally, I think in PvE events only the "boss" fights should have the special rules (like in BoFT).

PvP events should only sometimes have them.  Can't say I know the proper percentage to make it fun again, but I assume it'll be like how Congress defines porn ("I'll know it when I see it"), and 100% ain't it

Nalthazar

I like them in every event.

I like them when they add to the general theme of the node and make it a more dynamic experience. It makes it so that they can add more power to cards with a new mechanic from one of the sets without messing with power creep.

I don't like them when they provide an ability that is not relevant to the node.

Biggest win is when the node, the set, and the event all come together to create an interesting and different way to play the game than if I was just playing training grounds.

Julie71

I would like special supports omitted from all events.

Just say no thank you

Julie71

I would like special supports omitted from all events.

Pretty sure these are the reasons for some of the hard crashes and soft freezes. Just my opinion.

thesmallesthuman

I like them in every event.

Yeah I...I really like them. At best they add flavor and breathe new life into meh cards, and at worse I ignore them and nothing happens. I had no idea they bothered people so much. 

I like them more when they help you or synergize with objectives, and appreciate that they could help give you an edge especially in pvp against decks that don’t bother to build around objectives. 

Except for that orzhov node of that Ravnica pve event. Drain mana for every card I play? Nightmare fuel. That support can kiss my tinykitty. 

Otherwise, I like em and they can stay. Do we need them in every single event ever? Nah. But I’m fine with keeping what we have and don’t mind if they keep em coming.

Unknown

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Narcoticsagent

I have another opinion (please explain).

I would like them to have powerful enough effects that its is truly detrimental to ignore them. I also think they should always synergize with the node secondary objectives.

Powerful enough in my mind would be things like:

Green creatures get +3/+3 to base stats and per reinforcement of the creature and all other color creatures get -3/-3 base and per reinforcement.

All spells in hand gain 3 mana at beginning of turn and each support loses 2 shield. 

These would be very hard to ignore.

I would be good with these supports in probably 80-90% of events. There should be an occasional event where you just make the best deck possible and try to win. 

LordDorwin

I would like them in some events.

Of all issues I have with this game, this is probably the least of them.  Should I lose a match and claim that "it was because of the special support!", this would definitely be an attempt at face-saving.

I presume that the poll was referring to event-specific special supports, BTW.  I'll address others in an addendum.

Now, there is one caveat, as well as an improvement that can be made.

The caveat: I'm assuming that the question was referring to correctly working special supports, not things like "Zhalfirin Void support does nothing", "Great Tournament support not changing colour", "Orzhov RT support has Izzet effect", and similar, which are bugs and should really be discussed in that channel.

The improvement: Colour change in these supports would be greatly improved if it worked according to a set rotation (eg, W,U,B,G,R,W...) or the gem retains it's colour and does not change.  A randomised system has the risk of exacerbating excessive cascading, especially if the randomisation is imperfect on a gross scale.  The rule of colour change should be listed along with the other rules of the event.

As for where they should go, my answer is "where they make sense".  Something like Dragon War (where they can be seen as the "help" given by that Elder Dragon in whose node you're playing) is perfectly appropriate.  As for PvE, I'd rather face the Void or Azor with their special privileges than Bolas and his HP bunker - they require more intelligence and less looping and brute force to get around.

Putting some such supports into ZvE would just be so much garnish.

ADDENDUM: SPECIAL SUPPORTS CREATED BY PLANESWALKERS

Many PWs make supports as a 3rd ability.  The standard ones are around shield 6 (Liliana 3's shield 4 one and Koth's shield 10 one are the maxima and minima of the distribution, to my knowledge).

Then there are the 2 that make indestructible supports: Bolas and his Spark and Kaya 2.

The Spark makes that particular Bolas too strong in comparison to the other Bolas iterations, not to mention other planeswalkers. 

Kaya was better designed, in that she was not given the equivalent of a superpower.

These supports behave like the other special supports despite appearing semi-randomly, so they warrant a mention for the sake of completeness. 

Discussion around them is more about planeswalker balance, which is off-topic here.

CORRECTION

I stated that Kaya makes an infinite shield support.  She does not.
The planeswalker I had in mind was Vraska 2.  Apologies for talking rubbish.

I am leaving the piece as written for the sake of completeness.

bk1234

I would like them in some events.

starfall said:

Node 7 on DoM SnM takes FOREVER.

How does that pertain to this discussion, shteev?

mrixl2520

I would like them in some events.

I like them and hate them.
I like that they are a permanent support that changes colors, but that is maybe the only thing I like about them.
I dislike how you don't know what they will do until you have loaded into the match, and sometimes they work counter to what the match objectives are. Or they slow the game down too much (that awful Orzhov "extort" one that drains 1 mana after you cast a spell, making it difficult to strategically cast your spells). Or they simply do too many things (like augmenting you abilities in the Dragon War event). 

bk1234

I would like them in some events.

mrixl2520 said:

I like them and hate them.
I like that they are a permanent support that changes colors, but that is maybe the only thing I like about them.
I dislike how you don't know what they will do until you have loaded into the match, and sometimes they work counter to what the match objectives are. Or they slow the game down too much (that awful Orzhov "extort" one that drains 1 mana after you cast a spell, making it difficult to strategically cast your spells). Or they simply do too many things (like augmenting you abilities in the Dragon War event). 

Do you mean that the in-game info doesn’t tell you what they do? 

jtwood

I would like them in some events.

I like special supports as a way to mix the game up, but I am disappointed that ... 85% of the time... I just flat out ignore them. If they can be in less events and more impactful when they are in the event, that would be the sweet spot from my view point.

Unknown

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mrixl2520

I would like them in some events.

bken1234 said:

mrixl2520 said:

I like them and hate them.
I like that they are a permanent support that changes colors, but that is maybe the only thing I like about them.
I dislike how you don't know what they will do until you have loaded into the match, and sometimes they work counter to what the match objectives are. Or they slow the game down too much (that awful Orzhov "extort" one that drains 1 mana after you cast a spell, making it difficult to strategically cast your spells). Or they simply do too many things (like augmenting you abilities in the Dragon War event). 

Do you mean that the in-game info doesn’t tell you what they do? 

I dislike that you can't preview what the special supports do before you load into the match. I think it would be helpful to know about them in the deck selection screen where you can read the match objectives.

bk1234

I would like them in some events.

mrixl2520 said:

bken1234 said:

mrixl2520 said:

I like them and hate them.
I like that they are a permanent support that changes colors, but that is maybe the only thing I like about them.
I dislike how you don't know what they will do until you have loaded into the match, and sometimes they work counter to what the match objectives are. Or they slow the game down too much (that awful Orzhov "extort" one that drains 1 mana after you cast a spell, making it difficult to strategically cast your spells). Or they simply do too many things (like augmenting you abilities in the Dragon War event). 

Do you mean that the in-game info doesn’t tell you what they do? 

I dislike that you can't preview what the special supports do before you load into the match. I think it would be helpful to know about them in the deck selection screen where you can read the match objectives.

Yes, I agree with this completely.  Some would say look at the wiki, but this is an open source project, so it isn’t linked in game and many players don’t know it exists. Also, with the current instability of the app, it’s quite inconvenient, as I’m told switching between deckbuilding and other apps is still causing crashes for many. 

However for your reference and those who don’t have the link: https://wiki.mtgpq.info/wiki/Main_Page

(Shout out to the awesome wiki team, btw!)

Brigby

mrixl2520 said:

I dislike that you can't preview what the special supports do before you load into the match. I think it would be helpful to know about them in the deck selection screen where you can read the match objectives.

I think having an information button in the deck selection / pre-battle screen would certainly be helpful, but there are a couple of other avenues you can also turn to when looking up what special event supports do.

Event Rules
When you click on the information button containing the event rules, it should also list any unique event supports on each node. Taking Ravnica at War, for example, here is what you'd see in the Event Rules window:


Clicking on each one will bring up the Support details.

Event Details Sub-Forum
We have an Event Details section of the forum that lists key information for almost every event, such as node objectives, rewards, and special support details. For example, here is the Event Details page for Ravnica at War - Devastation

bk1234

I would like them in some events.

@Brigby
I had no idea that even scrolled. 

Mburn7

I would like them in some events.

@Brigby I have never heard of that before either.