Exquisite Archangel

bk1234

madwren said:

Defenestrator said:

Thank you all for the responses and advice.  I have to be honest though.  The existence of these kind of decks, that can just loop almost endlessly, makes me want to cancel my membership and stop playing.  That seems like poor game design to me.  That kind of thing is not meant to be possible in Magic the Gathering.  You can't deal thousands of damage in a single hit in the actual card game, let alone so insanely quickly, just by having the right cards.

If you expect PQ to play like MtG, you're going to be sorely disappointed. I don't mean that in a snarky way. It's just that Magic is structured around certain gameplay principles, such as (generally) equitable mana development, being able to summon more than 3 creatures (i.e., go wide), enchantments/artifacts in play being directly targetable, being able to respond to events via the stack (though at least we have Flash now), larger decks with duplicate limits, etc.

The mana/RNG inequity alone means that the game is far less about considered, strategic play, and more about abusing cards to generate said inequities, or creating decks that can respond to the AI's generation of inequities. 

This is what it all comes down to. 

Long time paper players tend to be most disappointed in MtGPQ. This is first and foremost a match 3 game, using the concepts and flavor of Magic the Gathering to make their Puzzle Quest richer. 

You can be a very good MTGPQ player with very little or even no paper experience. You can be a very bad MtGPQ player with 25 years of paper experience. 

A couple years ago, they showcased Grand Prix players building PQ decks. Those players would not have done well in events. They built for paper, not for PQ. Same license, different concepts. 

Mburn7

bken1234 said:

madwren said:

Defenestrator said:

Thank you all for the responses and advice.  I have to be honest though.  The existence of these kind of decks, that can just loop almost endlessly, makes me want to cancel my membership and stop playing.  That seems like poor game design to me.  That kind of thing is not meant to be possible in Magic the Gathering.  You can't deal thousands of damage in a single hit in the actual card game, let alone so insanely quickly, just by having the right cards.

If you expect PQ to play like MtG, you're going to be sorely disappointed. I don't mean that in a snarky way. It's just that Magic is structured around certain gameplay principles, such as (generally) equitable mana development, being able to summon more than 3 creatures (i.e., go wide), enchantments/artifacts in play being directly targetable, being able to respond to events via the stack (though at least we have Flash now), larger decks with duplicate limits, etc.

The mana/RNG inequity alone means that the game is far less about considered, strategic play, and more about abusing cards to generate said inequities, or creating decks that can respond to the AI's generation of inequities. 

This is what it all comes down to. 

Long time paper players tend to be most disappointed in MtGPQ. This is first and foremost a match 3 game, using the concepts and flavor of Magic the Gathering to make their Puzzle Quest richer. 

You can be a very good MTGPQ player with very little or even no paper experience. You can be a very bad MtGPQ player with 25 years of paper experience. 

A couple years ago, they showcased Grand Prix players building PQ decks. Those players would not have done well in events. They built for paper, not for PQ. Same license, different concepts. 

Oh yeah, I remember that!  Those decks were hot garbage lol.  Made a lot of us question if any of them ever actually played MTGPQ at all.

Yeah deckbuilding strategies are VERY different between paper and PQ, mostly because of the creature limit (although the weird mana definitely changes things too)

madwren

I'd say the mana inequity is the single greatest reason MTGPQ frustrates people who come from paper. MtG is a gradual game in which both players have roughly the same distribution and accumulation of mana.  Yes, there's ramp, and yes, Vintage is the thing that breaks all things, but in MTGPQ, mana cost is often meaningless because Greg dropped a 23-cost Gaea's Revenge on turn 1 while you respond with a match-3 loyalty, and a 15-cost Killer Instinct on turn 2, while you respond with a 2-mana offcolor match. 

Those examples are deliberately at the extreme of outcomes, but it isn't uncommon, and we've all had those games where Greg outgains you 70 mana to 7 on a single turn. 

That's MTGPQ's curse. It can never match the same experience as paper because its foundation is built on RNG and luck. The game is inherently unfair. The challenge is that people never complain about the games where THEY get a huge cascade that empties out their hand and wins on turn 3. Only when the AI does.

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bk1234

starfall said:

Mburn7 said:

bken1234 said:

madwren said:

Defenestrator said:

Thank you all for the responses and advice.  I have to be honest though.  The existence of these kind of decks, that can just loop almost endlessly, makes me want to cancel my membership and stop playing.  That seems like poor game design to me.  That kind of thing is not meant to be possible in Magic the Gathering.  You can't deal thousands of damage in a single hit in the actual card game, let alone so insanely quickly, just by having the right cards.

If you expect PQ to play like MtG, you're going to be sorely disappointed. I don't mean that in a snarky way. It's just that Magic is structured around certain gameplay principles, such as (generally) equitable mana development, being able to summon more than 3 creatures (i.e., go wide), enchantments/artifacts in play being directly targetable, being able to respond to events via the stack (though at least we have Flash now), larger decks with duplicate limits, etc.

The mana/RNG inequity alone means that the game is far less about considered, strategic play, and more about abusing cards to generate said inequities, or creating decks that can respond to the AI's generation of inequities. 

This is what it all comes down to. 

Long time paper players tend to be most disappointed in MtGPQ. This is first and foremost a match 3 game, using the concepts and flavor of Magic the Gathering to make their Puzzle Quest richer. 

You can be a very good MTGPQ player with very little or even no paper experience. You can be a very bad MtGPQ player with 25 years of paper experience. 

A couple years ago, they showcased Grand Prix players building PQ decks. Those players would not have done well in events. They built for paper, not for PQ. Same license, different concepts. 

Oh yeah, I remember that!  Those decks were hot garbage lol.  Made a lot of us question if any of them ever actually played MTGPQ at all.

Yeah deckbuilding strategies are VERY different between paper and PQ, mostly because of the creature limit (although the weird mana definitely changes things too)

There's no way that those players actually built those decks ^_^

Because they weren’t playing MtGPQ or because the decks were so bad and those experienced paper players should know better?  

Mburn7

bken1234 said:

starfall said:

Mburn7 said:

bken1234 said:

madwren said:

Defenestrator said:

Thank you all for the responses and advice.  I have to be honest though.  The existence of these kind of decks, that can just loop almost endlessly, makes me want to cancel my membership and stop playing.  That seems like poor game design to me.  That kind of thing is not meant to be possible in Magic the Gathering.  You can't deal thousands of damage in a single hit in the actual card game, let alone so insanely quickly, just by having the right cards.

If you expect PQ to play like MtG, you're going to be sorely disappointed. I don't mean that in a snarky way. It's just that Magic is structured around certain gameplay principles, such as (generally) equitable mana development, being able to summon more than 3 creatures (i.e., go wide), enchantments/artifacts in play being directly targetable, being able to respond to events via the stack (though at least we have Flash now), larger decks with duplicate limits, etc.

The mana/RNG inequity alone means that the game is far less about considered, strategic play, and more about abusing cards to generate said inequities, or creating decks that can respond to the AI's generation of inequities. 

This is what it all comes down to. 

Long time paper players tend to be most disappointed in MtGPQ. This is first and foremost a match 3 game, using the concepts and flavor of Magic the Gathering to make their Puzzle Quest richer. 

You can be a very good MTGPQ player with very little or even no paper experience. You can be a very bad MtGPQ player with 25 years of paper experience. 

A couple years ago, they showcased Grand Prix players building PQ decks. Those players would not have done well in events. They built for paper, not for PQ. Same license, different concepts. 

Oh yeah, I remember that!  Those decks were hot garbage lol.  Made a lot of us question if any of them ever actually played MTGPQ at all.

Yeah deckbuilding strategies are VERY different between paper and PQ, mostly because of the creature limit (although the weird mana definitely changes things too)

There's no way that those players actually built those decks ^_^

Because they weren’t playing MtGPQ or because the decks were so bad and those experienced paper players should know better?  

You were around then, do you remember those decks?  They clearly had never played a game of MTGPQ before, or else a Jace 1 deck with 6 creatures would not have been their favorite lol

madwren

I always figured that the devs built the decks and the players just put their name on it for PR purposes.

Unknown

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