Next SHIELD Training: Wolfsbane, MODOK, Other?

pheregas

@IceIX

There are several conversations regarding the pros/cons of the shard system.  I will not go into those here.

That being said, I think it is of the utmost importance to know who the essential three 4* characters are for the upcoming SHIELD Training (even if nothing has been announced for the character being released.)  

So let's discuss logistics of the new system as it currently stands.

Why?

Let's say I have 5 covers of Wolfsbane and 8 covers of MODOK.  Whichever one is essential is going to require a maximum of 5 covers to fully participate in the next SHIELD Training.

Since it is 400 shards per cover, I'm going to need 2,000 shards total (assuming Wolfsbane).  At 15 shards per Latest Legendary, I'm going to need to redeem 134 Latest Legendary Tokens.  At 25 CP per pull, that comes to 3,350 CP.  I know some Latests will pop up organically, like at seasons end, or champ rewards which will also mitigate this.  But I'll need to start hoarding NOW.  And knowing which 4* to have selected as a target is critical and requires as much warning as possible.  (Obviously Heroic tokens will also help with this, but those will also need to be hoarded.) 

The current season expires in under 12 days.  Which means about two weeks until MODOK and Wolfsbane enter tokens.  We can probably expect a new 5* in two weeks, followed by another 4* two weeks after that, which gives us about a month to hoard for the next SHIELD Training.

Using CP alone, I'll have to accumulate around 120 CP PER DAY to guarantee full participation in the next SHIELD Training if Wolfsbane is required (minus any LTs gained).  If MODOK, less.

Having to target both would mean way more resources to hoard.  (I'll also have to put on hiatus my actual long-term goal of Kate Bishop Covers to feed Barton during this process).

Regardless, I am required to go into full token/CP hoard-mode, which also means that any new 5* release store will have to be completely ignored.  But who to target upon unleashing the hoard is 100% critical and doing both simultaneously seems almost impossible.

Any information you can provide with advanced notification regarding who will be essential as well as any future changes to shards distribution (hopefully increases in availability or decrease in requirements) is critical for planning purposes.

Thank you for your time and effort here in the game/forums.

ThaRoadWarrior

There is generally that 7k hp HFH offer for 2:3 of the covers and sundry other things, but this time around it's for the 2 "vintage" 4*s  featured rather than Torch, which may be by design. I do have Torch in the & Foes vault for Modok, which could be random happenstance, or by design, I don't recall. My point is that there may be a way to brute force a cover or 2 via HP if it comes to that outside the shard system. Of course, this also assumes that you actually do "need" to fully participate. I've stopped chasing it myself, and it's fine really. 

Also - don't forget that you can get 4* shards from Heroic tokens. 40x for a 10-pack, or 168x from a 40 pack (assumes the 3x from a single is trivial). If you're looking for ways to get the 5 covers you need, and we're only talking about 4*s, the picture is a little bigger than just the Legendary stores. For slightly more hp, you can get 10 or 40 packs in the release store with the same shard drop rate, but a 15x chance to organically pull the left character (torch in the case of the current ST crop) along the way.

Assuming this isn't a "rail against shards" thread but actually a "how do i get what i need for ST" thread.

pheregas

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Also - don't forget that you can get 4* shards from Heroic tokens. 40x for a 10-pack, or 168x from a 40 pack (assumes the 3x from a single is trivial). If you're looking for ways to get the 5 covers you need, and we're only talking about 4*s, the picture is a little bigger than just the Legendary stores. For slightly more hp, you can get 10 or 40 packs in the release store with the same shard drop rate, but a 15x chance to organically pull the left character (torch in the case of the current ST crop) along the way.

Assuming this isn't a "rail against shards" thread but actually a "how do i get what i need for ST" thread.

Not a rail against thread.  The system is what the system is.  But being a newer system, we just need to understand feasibility.

And yes, I know about the Heroics giving shards (mentioned in HP, but there was a wall of text, so probably easily missed).  However, I've never needed to drop of 10 or 40 pack to compete before, nor have I used the HOT bundles.

I've played and participated in every single SHIELD Training since it's inception without spending under the old system.   This is indeed a shakeup and I'm just trying to understand the optimal way to use the new system.

Ed_Dragonrider

ThaRoadWarrior said:

There is generally that 7k hp HFH offer for 2:3 of the covers and sundry other things, but this time around it's for the 2 "vintage" 4*s  featured rather than Torch, which may be by design. I do have Torch in the & Foes vault for Modok, which could be random happenstance, or by design, I don't recall. My point is that there may be a way to brute force a cover or 2 via HP if it comes to that outside the shard system. Of course, this also assumes that you actually do "need" to fully participate. I've stopped chasing it myself, and it's fine really. 

...

Always for shield training it's someone who is featured in the PVEs leading up to it, so you can get covers for them with placement And progression,  and two other characters. The two others are the ones in the hfh bundle. Always.

spidyjedi84

Yes, Ed, we know. OP is asking for more time to plan with this new system and knowledge who that would be further out than 3 days time to know who he should be chasing when S.H.I.E.L.D. Training comes around. Since we're stuck with a system like this that makes chasing 4 stars like treading in molasses, it's not unfair to be asking for developers to either abandon requiring any newer characters for said training until this feature is completely rolled out or let us know with enough time to make trying to obtain a cover with our rosters something we can do. 
I don't expect D3 to do anything of the sort, but it would generate goodwill with portions of the playerbase if they did do that earlier as opposed to the week of or even day of said event happening.

pheregas

spidyjedi84 said:

Yes, Ed, we know. OP is asking for more time to plan with this new system and knowledge who that would be further out than 3 days time to know who he should be chasing when S.H.I.E.L.D. Training comes around. Since we're stuck with a system like this that makes chasing 4 stars like treading in molasses, it's not unfair to be asking for developers to either abandon requiring any newer characters for said training until this feature is completely rolled out or let us know with enough time to make trying to obtain a cover with our rosters something we can do. 
I don't expect D3 to do anything of the sort, but it would generate goodwill with portions of the playerbase if they did do that earlier as opposed to the week of or even day of said event happening.

Exactly.

I threw out the numbers I did to give real world examples on how much is required under this new system since shards are earned at a quantifiable rate.  It seems about every other season that we get two 4s entering tokens instead of one.  It's easy to plan for the one.  Much harder to plan for two, especially when you have to split shards between them.  
Granted, I am in the minority in covers earned.  My numbers won't reflect what SCL7 and below will require.  They'll need more.
I agree with Spidey that a 4* that has not been in tokens for at least a whole season should be banned from SHIELD training.  I thought the devs said that they were trying that at some point, but it seems that we've gone back to the most recent as required again.  Seeing as there are two new recent and SM:2099 maybe being skipped, then asking for advanced warning is not an unreasonable request, IMHO.

HoundofShadow

If you play for placement, I think you will have no problem getting 5 to 6 covers in the initial release.

New characters will appear in PvEs twice before the Shield Training ends, so you will have another 2-3 covers.

You will then be left with two covers to chase. It could be a hit or miss.

If you are full progression only players, I don't think getting them to 10 covers are easy. If I were you, I would focus on other things rather than chasing them to 10 covers.

I think the question is, which group of players should be able to complete shield training? 

spidyjedi84

HoundofShadow said:

If you play for placement, I think you will have no problem getting 5 to 6 covers in the initial release.

New characters will appear in PvEs twice before the Shield Training ends, so you will have another 2-3 covers.

You will then be left with two covers to chase. It could be a hit or miss.

If you are full progression only players, I don't think getting them to 10 covers are easy. If I were you, I would focus on other things rather than chasing them to 10 covers.

I think the question is, which group of players should be able to complete shield training? 

All players should have a reasonable chance to complete elements of SHIELD Training, regardless if they're a full progression or placement player. And most who are chasing characters to 10 covers or more are doing so knowing that either of these characters could be a required character for the next SHIELD Training event just a few weeks down the road and every cover helps be one less you're chasing.
New characters don't always appear in 2 PVEs as rewards before the next SHIELD Training begins. I think that's where developers have gotten called out from the playerbase is when they've strayed too far from that requirement, and in instances where we have to gamble if it's going to be MODOK or Rahne who will be the next required. 
Again, until all of the Shards system is in place, I don't find it an unreasonable ask for the developers to give us a fair chance to see if we can make up the 5 covers if they're going to stick with new requireds or stick to people that have been in rotation for a full season or more.
Asking for more communication shouldn't be an unreasonable demand in any game.

Ed_Dragonrider

spidyjedi84 said:

Yes, Ed, we know. OP is asking for more time to plan with this new system and knowledge who that would be further out than 3 days time to know who he should be chasing when S.H.I.E.L.D. Training comes around.
....

Yes, thank you, I did understand the original post and happen to 100% agree with it.
However:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

There is generally that 7k hp HFH offer for 2:3 of the covers and sundry other things, but this time around it's for the 2 "vintage" 4*s  featured rather than Torch, which may be by design. I do have Torch in the & Foes vault for Modok, which could be random happenstance, or by design, I don't recall. My point is that there may be a way to brute force a cover or 2 via HP if it comes to that outside the shard system. Of course, this also assumes that you actually do "need" to fully participate. I've stopped chasing it myself, and it's fine really. 

The highlighted part was what I was trying to clarify.
 Yes, it is by design in fact, for every ST the required A,B, and C characters: A will be in PVE and B+C will be in the bundle, whether we're talking the latest 4* or 3 vintage 4*s (like in the case of Wolfsbane). The bundle will never contain A+B or A+C.
And no, not everyone knows that..... so when considering how many covers you can get and from where, well... you cant rely on getting an extra cover from hfh as part of a bundle. Definitely not for the latest 4* required.

This was all I was trying to clarify, I'm sorry it's so vexing for you. Or perhaps I didn't explain properly, in which case, I'm still sorry. But non-vets also read on the forums so I'm not sorry for trying to clarify a minor comment in someone else's post, especially if it has relevance, which I think it did. I had learnt a lot from such throwaway side-comments and musings. Perhaps it helps others too.

TPF Alexis

I got a bunch of covers for M.O.D.O.K. and almost none for Wolfsbane, so I'm guessing she's going to be the one required for ST

helix72

When they ran the first SHIELD training requiring a new character I didn’t have 10 covers for, I went nuts. I was outraged and spent time and resources trying to earn enough before SHIELD training expired, and hopped aboard the frustration express here on the forums.

Then the second time they did it, I realized-I was doing all this and the reward was a single 4* cover. So now, frankly, I don’t care anymore. If the devs want to “challenge” us by having these newer toons required and giving us no notice of such, I can shout into the black hole of unanswered complaints or I can move on. I now choose to move on, and my perspective on my mpq experience has improved.

Just a suggestion that may or may not have the same effect for you, should you choose to give it a try. Remember, in any relationship, whoever cares the least controls the most.

bluewolf

TPF Alexis said:

I got a bunch of covers for M.O.D.O.K. and almost none for Wolfsbane, so I'm guessing she's going to be the one required for ST

There's a fairly strong trend to make the most recent person the ST essential, so Wolfsbane is slightly less likely based on that.  And MODOK will be next season's Shield Sim reward......lately it seems like they have been making the ST person's cover part of ST rewards too.  I could be wrong there.

Anyway, you might be in better shape than you think you are.

Mayo

I believe that is you are a casual player the amount of covers you can get for a new 4* does not add up on time for the actual shard system to help for ST. 
What to do? As written by another forumnite, sooner or later you will realize that expending so much time and resources to get 1 extra cover with the shard system just is not worth it as it is. 
Surely the same players and guilds that are dedicated and spend money to win will get and monopolize the amount of covers they need for ST but that will only stop all other ascending players to level up and be competition so they will eventually leave the game for another less frustrating one. 
Hopefully the developer bosses will rebalance the game so the player base grows by reaching the game goals with reasonable satisfaction and investment. 

HoundofShadow

In the past, when newer characters are required for Shield Training, they usually appear in PvEs thrice before Shield Training ends. 

After that, they dropped it to two appearances. 

I don't think they have the intention of letting every full progression players complete shield training. For this to happen, new character need to appear in PvEs for another 7 times. 

If your vision of shield training is that most players should be able to get the 4* cover, then I think you will be disappointed. From the looks of it, it's either players who schedule their life around PvEs and play competitively or whales who can complete the entire middle portion of shield training.

On the flip side, if you can't complete the entire middle row, at least you still can complete between 6 - 10 out of 12 nodes. You still get rewards for the nodes.

DAZ0273

With the introduction of Shards I have given up on SHIELD Training and am sticking to trying to champ Juggernaut. Maybe I will luck out and it will be Worthy Cap who is at 209 for ST but Wolfsbane and M.O.D.O.K no chance under this system.

bluewolf

DAZ0273 said:

With the introduction of Shards I have given up on SHIELD Training and am sticking to trying to champ Juggernaut. Maybe I will luck out and it will be Worthy Cap who is at 209 for ST but Wolfsbane and M.O.D.O.K no chance under this system.

I could be wrong (depends on the events schedule) but there's a decent chance the next Shield Training is all-Classic 4's and start 12/19.  That should make some people happy.

DAZ0273

bluewolf said:

DAZ0273 said:

With the introduction of Shards I have given up on SHIELD Training and am sticking to trying to champ Juggernaut. Maybe I will luck out and it will be Worthy Cap who is at 209 for ST but Wolfsbane and M.O.D.O.K no chance under this system.

I could be wrong (depends on the events schedule) but there's a decent chance the next Shield Training is all-Classic 4's and start 12/19.  That should make some people happy.

That would definitely provide some breathing space. I'll likely not chase Wolfsbane anyway but if I can finish Juggernaut I will switch to M.O.D.O.K

Phumade

pheregas said:

Let's say I have 5 covers of Wolfsbane and 8 covers of MODOK.  Whichever one is essential is going to require a maximum of 5 covers to fully participate in the next SHIELD Training.

Any information you can provide with advanced notification regarding who will be essential as well as any future changes to shards distribution (hopefully increases in availability or decrease in requirements) is critical for planning purposes.

Thank you for your time and effort here in the game/forums.

it doesn’t really matter.  You can’t bh Wolfsbane or modok anyway until the start of next season. So you have to hoard under either scenario.  

At the start of the new season in 14 days, you can make a better decision about how to apply those saved covers.  if you break your std elite and event rewards,  you’ll probably have enough for 2/3 heroes.  Earning 5+ is probably unrealistic, but typically an event will award covers for st.  For me personally, I have always had to play for reward covers to fully finish off chars for champion status

TPF Alexis

bluewolf said:

TPF Alexis said:

I got a bunch of covers for M.O.D.O.K. and almost none for Wolfsbane, so I'm guessing she's going to be the one required for ST

There's a fairly strong trend to make the most recent person the ST essential, so Wolfsbane is slightly less likely based on that.  And MODOK will be next season's Shield Sim reward......lately it seems like they have been making the ST person's cover part of ST rewards too.  I could be wrong there.
Anyway, you might be in better shape than you think you are.

Yeah, but Murphy's Law always seems to play a larger role than logic

Mayo

blankcanvas said:

Mayo said:

I believe that is you are a casual player the amount of covers you can get for a new 4* does not add up on time for the actual shard system to help for ST. 
What to do? As written by another forumnite, sooner or later you will realize that expending so much time and resources to get 1 extra cover with the shard system just is not worth it as it is. 
Surely the same players and guilds that are dedicated and spend money to win will get and monopolize the amount of covers they need for ST but that will only stop all other ascending players to level up and be competition so they will eventually leave the game for another less frustrating one. 
Hopefully the developer bosses will rebalance the game so the player base grows by reaching the game goals with reasonable satisfaction and investment. 

ST is not aimed at casual players my friend, so please do not waste your time trying to chase the impossible. It's aimed at veteran rosters of all 4* characters at a minimum of lvl209

Maybe you are missing my point. Casual players are those who are not obsessed with placement rewards or grinding resources more than a few hours a day. (real life is serious, mpq is a game, not a second job). I myself have almost all my 4*s over 200/209 and the rest are not only because i do not have iso to waste. If you are a veteran players you will probably be unconcerned that there is a good quantity of players which could access ST by BH or buying now and then hp packs.
If this game continues launching incomplete features to milk players (veteran and casual alike) there is a high probability veterans will continue defending this moves mainly because of the masive investments that already have done while casual players will at some point leave the game for another less stressing one... And probably you will still don't care however without a Wide player base it is imposible to sustain any business on the long run. I already see game slices which do not máx the number of players because all recent incomplete implementations were always focused on spending.
Did supports were ever implemented ingame other from direct or indirect purchases? No. Will shards will be implemented ingame as promised? based on supports I am inclined to also say no.
So returning to track, if the shard system is sold as a better system than BH then that would mean players (veterans, intermediate, guilded, casuals or whatever name you give us) like myself should still be able to access ST and that is not the case. 

HoundofShadow

F2P mobile games' business model are pretty much straightforward: You either grind away to progress or you pay to progress.

Customers buy something because they've needs. If they don't, it's highly unlikely they will buy it. 

If you expect devs of F2P mobile games that have to pay licensing costs and royalties to come up with features or events that even casual players can complete by not spending much time or money, then I think there's a misalignment of expectation. If one continue to expect this, I think it'd be better for players to look for other similar competitors that can achieve this.

I will be concerned if the devs are not interested in monetising the game anymore. You can ask players who play Marvel Battle Lines what happens when their devs decided to stop monetising.