Opinions on the overall MTG story/lore

FindingHeart8

I'm interested in your opinion of the mtg storyline, any part of it.  What did you like? What did you dislike?  Why? 

*please give at least a minimum of a brief recap of what occured in mtg lore before explaining your opinion on the matter, so others who aren't as familiar with the mtg story can follow.  

jtwood

I haven't kept up since Bolas got trapped in the Meditation Realm wiith Ugin.

But it was interesting up until that point. I enjoyed the "reveal" of additional planeswalkers. I liked the idea of Bolas having a path to pre-Mending powers. Sort of wish that more of the PW deaths had not been off-camera.

FindingHeart8

jtwood said:

I haven't kept up since Bolas got trapped in the Meditation Realm wiith Ugin.

But it was interesting up until that point. I enjoyed the "reveal" of additional planeswalkers. I liked the idea of Bolas having a path to pre-Mending powers. Sort of wish that more of the PW deaths had not been off-camera.

Yeah I thought that was overall pretty neat, and more of a focus on the PW deaths would have been great for the story.

I kinda wish Liliana had been the one to die instead of Gideon.  That just feels like a cop-out plot twist to me.

I think Lili dying would have been much more tragic to the mtg audience; plus it would have been poetic, that the planeswalker who bargained her soul for the power to bring the dead back to life, in turn is paying her debts by herself dying.  Just my 2 cents.

FindingHeart8

Also on the topic of Lili, is it true that when she freed Avacyn for the Helvault, Avacyn immediately went crazy and started slaughtering people? I didn't read the story but had hoped there was some time between Avacyn being freed and her going Eldrazi-crazy.  Like Emrakul was just hiding behind the couch the whole time waiting for a 5-second break between battle scenes to spring a Shyamalan plot-twist

Azerack

FindingHeart8 said:

jtwood said:

I haven't kept up since Bolas got trapped in the Meditation Realm wiith Ugin.

But it was interesting up until that point. I enjoyed the "reveal" of additional planeswalkers. I liked the idea of Bolas having a path to pre-Mending powers. Sort of wish that more of the PW deaths had not been off-camera.

Yeah I thought that was overall pretty neat, and more of a focus on the PW deaths would have been great for the story.

I kinda wish Liliana had been the one to die instead of Gideon.  That just feels like a cop-out plot twist to me.

I think Lili dying would have been much more tragic to the mtg audience; plus it would have been poetic, that the planeswalker who bargained her soul for the power to bring the dead back to life, in turn is paying her debts by herself dying.  Just my 2 cents.

It DID seem sort of "easy out" for saving Liliana and killing off Gideon, I agree. Felt like a "good deeds don't go unpunished" deal. I DO like Lili' but Gideon actually DYING wasn't something I would have expected.
Maybe she'll find a way to "raise" him up, again. ;-)

Meanwhile, as much as I love playing w. the PW, I'm glad the whole Bolas story arc is done. That was getting on my nerves, for some reason.

Narcoticsagent

Should this thread warn people about possible spoilers?

Azerack

Narcoticsagent said:

Should this thread warn people about possible spoilers?

MTG is already on Throne, so all this is War' chat. It's like talking about Avengers: Infinity War while Endgame is still going, IMHO.

Mburn7

FindingHeart8 said:

Also on the topic of Lili, is it true that when she freed Avacyn for the Helvault, Avacyn immediately went crazy and started slaughtering people? I didn't read the story but had hoped there was some time between Avacyn being freed and her going Eldrazi-crazy.  Like Emrakul was just hiding behind the couch the whole time waiting for a 5-second break between battle scenes to spring a Shyamalan plot-twist

There was a small gap in time in between.  What happened was:

Nahiri was also trapped in the Helvault, since Sorin had trapped her there just after it had been created (~5k years)

She went back to Zendikar and saw that the Eldrazi had razed the place because her and Sorin weren't there.

She returned to Innistrad and began corrupting the plane's mana and summoning Emrakul.  Emrakul couldn't get there as long as Avacyn was alive, but she WAS able to start her weird madness infection, infecting Avacyn first as she tried to protect the plane from it.

So Avacyn didn't get to return for long before the insanity thing, but she did have enough time to introduce a werewolf cure restore hope to the humans for just long enough for them to be REALLY devastated when she makes her heel turn.

Mburn7

My favorite MTG story was Amonkhet.  I love the interplay between the sunny and happy world and the death and destruction and Bolas undertones underneath.  That's a plane I would love to see a full book on instead of just the snippets on the website.

FindingHeart8

Azerack said:

FindingHeart8 said:

jtwood said:

I haven't kept up since Bolas got trapped in the Meditation Realm wiith Ugin.

But it was interesting up until that point. I enjoyed the "reveal" of additional planeswalkers. I liked the idea of Bolas having a path to pre-Mending powers. Sort of wish that more of the PW deaths had not been off-camera.

Yeah I thought that was overall pretty neat, and more of a focus on the PW deaths would have been great for the story.

I kinda wish Liliana had been the one to die instead of Gideon.  That just feels like a cop-out plot twist to me.

I think Lili dying would have been much more tragic to the mtg audience; plus it would have been poetic, that the planeswalker who bargained her soul for the power to bring the dead back to life, in turn is paying her debts by herself dying.  Just my 2 cents.

It DID seem sort of "easy out" for saving Liliana and killing off Gideon, I agree. Felt like a "good deeds don't go unpunished" deal. I DO like Lili' but Gideon actually DYING wasn't something I would have expected.
Maybe she'll find a way to "raise" him up, again. ;-)

Meanwhile, as much as I love playing w. the PW, I'm glad the whole Bolas story arc is done. That was getting on my nerves, for some reason.

Yeah I agree with you 100%. It would be funny if Gideon was brought back from the dead, maybe as a white mummy amonkhet zombie?

Or who knows, maybe he's frolicking through the flowery meadows of the underworld with Elspeth

Being a monowhite planeswalker in mtg is basically a death sentence.  Hang in there Ajani!

FindingHeart8

Mburn7 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

Also on the topic of Lili, is it true that when she freed Avacyn for the Helvault, Avacyn immediately went crazy and started slaughtering people? I didn't read the story but had hoped there was some time between Avacyn being freed and her going Eldrazi-crazy.  Like Emrakul was just hiding behind the couch the whole time waiting for a 5-second break between battle scenes to spring a Shyamalan plot-twist

There was a small gap in time in between.  What happened was:

Nahiri was also trapped in the Helvault, since Sorin had trapped her there just after it had been created (~5k years)

She went back to Zendikar and saw that the Eldrazi had razed the place because her and Sorin weren't there.

She returned to Innistrad and began corrupting the plane's mana and summoning Emrakul.  Emrakul couldn't get there as long as Avacyn was alive, but she WAS able to start her weird madness infection, infecting Avacyn first as she tried to protect the plane from it.

So Avacyn didn't get to return for long before the insanity thing, but she did have enough time to introduce a werewolf cure restore hope to the humans for just long enough for them to be REALLY devastated when she makes her heel turn.

That does explain why Sorin and Nahiri just couldn't "get along."

I liked Amonkhet too, it was a simple storyline.  Everyone and their god-pals worked real hard to be tricked by Bolas.  Oh no, we are all pretty, blue sand-zombies now.
And Aw Geez, us planeswalkers learned that Bolas bought all the downloadable-content upgrades and even When Our Powers Combine can't save the day.  Better skedaddle to, uh, elsewhere.

Innistrad always had me confused.
Like why did Emrakul listen to Nahiri? Did she know the Eldrazi's favorite food or something?  And why did Emrakul just decide to peace out and go live in the moon?  And everyone gets a zombie-buddy to help fight the horde of tentacles?  I liked OG Innistrad much better than it's lousy sequel.

FindingHeart8

I think I was sleep deprived when I made that last post, sorry if any of it is confusing  

Unknown

This content has been removed.

jtwood

Mburn7 said:

My favorite MTG story was Amonkhet.  I love the interplay between the sunny and happy world and the death and destruction and Bolas undertones underneath.  That's a plane I would love to see a full book on instead of just the snippets on the website.

I felt the entirety of the Amonkhet story was equal parts fascinating and depressing. The people on that plane are cursed to walk forever as undead, so there was absolutely no way they could ever escape Bolas' plans.

I hope they do a backstory on Amonkhet from before it was a desert plane with a single city. Seems like the curse on their plane would have a fascinating origin.

jtwood

FindingHeart8 said:

That does explain why Sorin and Nahiri just couldn't "get along."

I liked Amonkhet too, it was a simple storyline.  Everyone and their god-pals worked real hard to be tricked by Bolas.  Oh no, we are all pretty, blue sand-zombies now.
And Aw Geez, us planeswalkers learned that Bolas bought all the downloadable-content upgrades and even When Our Powers Combine can't save the day.  Better skedaddle to, uh, elsewhere.

Innistrad always had me confused.
Like why did Emrakul listen to Nahiri? Did she know the Eldrazi's favorite food or something?  And why did Emrakul just decide to peace out and go live in the moon?  And everyone gets a zombie-buddy to help fight the horde of tentacles?  I liked OG Innistrad much better than it's lousy sequel.

Emrakul didn't so much listen to Nahiri as she simply followed whatever it is that attracts the Eldrazi to various planes. Once Emrakul got there, she(?) realized it was not appropriate for her to be there and locked her(?)self up in the moon to avoid a calamity.

FindingHeart8

jtwood said:

FindingHeart8 said:

That does explain why Sorin and Nahiri just couldn't "get along."

I liked Amonkhet too, it was a simple storyline.  Everyone and their god-pals worked real hard to be tricked by Bolas.  Oh no, we are all pretty, blue sand-zombies now.
And Aw Geez, us planeswalkers learned that Bolas bought all the downloadable-content upgrades and even When Our Powers Combine can't save the day.  Better skedaddle to, uh, elsewhere.

Innistrad always had me confused.
Like why did Emrakul listen to Nahiri? Did she know the Eldrazi's favorite food or something?  And why did Emrakul just decide to peace out and go live in the moon?  And everyone gets a zombie-buddy to help fight the horde of tentacles?  I liked OG Innistrad much better than it's lousy sequel.

Emrakul didn't so much listen to Nahiri as she simply followed whatever it is that attracts the Eldrazi to various planes. Once Emrakul got there, she(?) realized it was not appropriate for her to be there and locked her(?)self up in the moon to avoid a calamity.

Okay, that forces me to ask why she decided imprisoning herself in the moon was a good choice, and also what is she afraid of? I mean, aren't the Eldrazi titans invincible entities?

jtwood

FindingHeart8 said:

jtwood said:

FindingHeart8 said:

That does explain why Sorin and Nahiri just couldn't "get along."

I liked Amonkhet too, it was a simple storyline.  Everyone and their god-pals worked real hard to be tricked by Bolas.  Oh no, we are all pretty, blue sand-zombies now.
And Aw Geez, us planeswalkers learned that Bolas bought all the downloadable-content upgrades and even When Our Powers Combine can't save the day.  Better skedaddle to, uh, elsewhere.

Innistrad always had me confused.
Like why did Emrakul listen to Nahiri? Did she know the Eldrazi's favorite food or something?  And why did Emrakul just decide to peace out and go live in the moon?  And everyone gets a zombie-buddy to help fight the horde of tentacles?  I liked OG Innistrad much better than it's lousy sequel.

Emrakul didn't so much listen to Nahiri as she simply followed whatever it is that attracts the Eldrazi to various planes. Once Emrakul got there, she(?) realized it was not appropriate for her to be there and locked her(?)self up in the moon to avoid a calamity.

Okay, that forces me to ask why she decided imprisoning herself in the moon was a good choice, and also what is she afraid of? I mean, aren't the Eldrazi titans invincible entities?

Emrakul didn’t really elaborate:

”After destroying much of the city of Thraben, Emrakul was confronted by the Gatewatch and Liliana Vess, who are nearly brought down by her mental assaults. Jace communicates with a figment of her that manifests as Emeria, which tells him that she is "incomplete, unfulfilled, inchoate" and that Innistrad should welcome her, not reject her. When the Gatewatch mounts the ritual to seal her, she willingly lets herself be sealed in Innistrad's moon by possessing Tamiyo, after telling Jace that she "didn't want to play anymore" and "It was not her time. Not yet."[3]”

https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Emrakul

Mburn7

For reference, all stories that have been released in not-book form are here:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/story

This one specifically is:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/promised-end-2016-07-27

Nahiri's Beef with Sorin is:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/stone-and-blood-2016-06-15

(there are a bunch of older stories squirreled away in weird places on the Wizards site too, some from Old Ravnica and Theros are there but not featured for some reason if you want those too)

FindingHeart8

jtwood said:

FindingHeart8 said:

jtwood said:

FindingHeart8 said:

That does explain why Sorin and Nahiri just couldn't "get along."

I liked Amonkhet too, it was a simple storyline.  Everyone and their god-pals worked real hard to be tricked by Bolas.  Oh no, we are all pretty, blue sand-zombies now.
And Aw Geez, us planeswalkers learned that Bolas bought all the downloadable-content upgrades and even When Our Powers Combine can't save the day.  Better skedaddle to, uh, elsewhere.

Innistrad always had me confused.
Like why did Emrakul listen to Nahiri? Did she know the Eldrazi's favorite food or something?  And why did Emrakul just decide to peace out and go live in the moon?  And everyone gets a zombie-buddy to help fight the horde of tentacles?  I liked OG Innistrad much better than it's lousy sequel.

Emrakul didn't so much listen to Nahiri as she simply followed whatever it is that attracts the Eldrazi to various planes. Once Emrakul got there, she(?) realized it was not appropriate for her to be there and locked her(?)self up in the moon to avoid a calamity.

Okay, that forces me to ask why she decided imprisoning herself in the moon was a good choice, and also what is she afraid of? I mean, aren't the Eldrazi titans invincible entities?

Emrakul didn’t really elaborate:

”After destroying much of the city of Thraben, Emrakul was confronted by the Gatewatch and Liliana Vess, who are nearly brought down by her mental assaults. Jace communicates with a figment of her that manifests as Emeria, which tells him that she is "incomplete, unfulfilled, inchoate" and that Innistrad should welcome her, not reject her. When the Gatewatch mounts the ritual to seal her, she willingly lets herself be sealed in Innistrad's moon by possessing Tamiyo, after telling Jace that she "didn't want to play anymore" and "It was not her time. Not yet."[3]”

https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Emrakul

Wait, did Emrakul just deus ex machina herself?

FindingHeart8

Mburn7 said:

For reference, all stories that have been released in not-book form are here:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/story

This one specifically is:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/promised-end-2016-07-27

Nahiri's Beef with Sorin is:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/stone-and-blood-2016-06-15

(there are a bunch of older stories squirreled away in weird places on the Wizards site too, some from Old Ravnica and Theros are there but not featured for some reason if you want those too)

I've actually tried to read pieces of the story before and found it mentally painful, with how poor some of the writing is.

Personally I find it much more interesting to talk with lore experts who have already suffered through acquiring the information and can relay it in a way that is more processable.  Also it makes for fantastic conversation 

James13

Gatewatch was basically defeated by Emrakul, yes.  And Emrakul ominously noted that it wasn't "her" time yet.  Emrakul will be back and is happy awaiting her time of destruction.

You have to take note somewhat of what Ugin said about the Eldrazi titans.  It's not malevolence or anything that guides them.  View them more of a till that turns over the soil.  Or a volcano that erases/builds new islands in the multiverse.

Nahiri used the nature of them to seek revenge against Sorin.  Emrakul didn't really appreciate the fact she was brought there when the plane wasn't ready for her.  Yet.

The Eldrazi are kind of a force of nature.  Operating at a level or dimension beyond the ones of the planeswalkers, Bolas, etc.  Because they are somewhat primal forces they could be predicted and manipulated.  But they are still soemwhat unknowable.  The manifestations the story has interacted with were described by Ugin as if a human reached a hand of themselves into a pool of water and we, as fish, see only the hand and try to understand it as such.  The titans we know are a fraction or piece of an unknown whole elsewhere.

That makes them kind of fascinating from the story perspective.