Star of Extinction destroys Vanguard supports & has wording inconsistencies.

Smokincookz

I have not tested it against enemy Vanguards, but Star of Extinction destroyed my own that had 7 shield.

I expected it to behave like the first part of Fall of the Thran, as it is worded nearly identically to that card.

Tremayne

@Smokincookz - interesting observation. First, the card clearly says destroy all gems so it is really not inconsistent in my mind. However, the behaviour is indeed surprising, since the expectations set by the devs have been that vanguards where untouchable by any card not explicitly stating it was targeting vanguards.

If what you describe is actually the intended interpretation then I’m pretty sure I’m going to reevaluate the usefulness of star of extinction - however short time it has in standard.

Magic:PQ Support Team

Hello guys,

Thank you for the feedback!
We'll check the card text and see what can be done.

Smokincookz

@Tremayne I mentioned Fall of the Thran because the wording says “Destroy all other gems”
Star of Extinction “...and destroy all the gems”

I don’t expect Fall of the Thran is supposed to destroy supports the way SoE does. That would be too OP imho. 

I can see that Star of Extinction’s effect is probably supposed to be as it is now, minus the vanguard destruction.

It’s the wording being so close to that in Fall of the Thran that confused me on what it was actually going to do.

Mburn7

Smokincookz said:

@Tremayne I mentioned Fall of the Thran because the wording says “Destroy all other gems”
Star of Extinction “...and destroy all the gems”

I can see that Star of Extinction’s effect is probably supposed to be as it is now, minus the vanguard destruction.

I disagree, I think Star should also destroy vanguards.  "All the gems"  should mean ALL the gems.

That being said, I really don't care much either way.  I just want people to be able to read a card and know what it does.  An impossible goal I know, but I will keep dreaming anyway.

Horadrim

Based on my observations so far since vanguard has been implemented, any effect that destroys gems (e.g. Koth's 1st ability, spells like star of extinction or seismic shift, supports like fall of thran or mirror march or harness the storm, creatures like Rakdos showstopper etc.) in a non-targeting manner (text says "destroy gem" instead of "destroy support") can destroy vanguards.

It's like hexproof being circumvented by non-targeting effect (be it a spell, PW ability, support, or creature ETB/attack)

Smokincookz

@Horadrim Koth’s 1st ability has since been corrected to only hit them for one shield though. Not sure if any of the other cards you mentioned were/are bugged like Koth’s 1st was. SoE is ripping through supports regardless of shield count, vanguard or not. It would be normal for the VG to be destroyed only if 1 shield remains, or low enough to be taken out by cascades after the initial destruction. 

Unless VG or legendary is targeted specifically in text, they should not be destroyed by the effect. I assume the way SoE is intended to work should probably read like “...and destroy all the gems, including all supports”.

Then, all that would be left to do is stop the gem destruction from hitting the VG’s for more than 1 shield. I do agree with @Mburn7 that “all the gems” should mean ALL the gems, though that would mean a lot of cards would have to specify about not targeting VG’s, no?

Zzyzzx

I use this card all the time and noticed this too back when the Vanguards first released.
My first thought was along the lines of ****, but "destroy all gems" is pretty straight-forward...and I like it for that.

Magic:PQ Support Team

Hi guys,

According to our game designers, the cards that refers to destroying GEMS, will destroy Vanguard supports because we're talking about destroying gems in a general way, not supports. 

The cards that destroy supports, including vanguard ones, will specify supports not gems.

Regards.

Horadrim

Oktagon_Support said:

Hi guys,

According to our game designers, the cards that refers to destroying GEMS, will destroy Vanguard supports because we're talking about destroying gems in a general way, not supports. 

The cards that destroy supports, including vanguard ones, will specify supports not gems.

Regards.

This was what I observed since vanguards came out... although if I remember correctly, there were some inconsistencies in one of the patches after 3.7.1. E.g. Koth's 1st ability, seismic shift, or fall of the thran sometimes destroyed vanguards (even with more than 1 shield) but sometimes they didn't (i.e. vanguard only lost 1 shield). Please make it consistent.