How do we feel about The Elderspark now?

starfallstarfall Posts: 1,727 Chairperson of the Boards
The Elderspark was quite unpopular last time it was run, but it has been changed since then. How do we feel about it this time around?

How do we feel about The Elderspark now? 73 votes

I like it a lot!
2%
AmoXJSEvilDead 2 votes
I like it a bit
19%
DragonSorcererJames13WiLDRAGEFindingHeart8ambrosio191arevalagreenmeanieQuantiusWulFgaR77NarcoticsagentDerekRogersRedHerringFirstofhisname419tankosh 14 votes
I don't mind either way
5%
AzerackNinjaEFirinmahlazerih8regin 4 votes
I dislike it a bit
27%
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I dislike it a lot
45%
bken1234GrizzoMtGPQDologanJopeX37Machinewereotterhawkyh1NalthazarOpperstamperMatthewIM_CARLOSfiirstG_pretenderninjarkRhasgetRasalghulFeiticieraBilGabrosinMerrick_FrontierYeti 33 votes
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Comments

  • VolrakVolrak Posts: 650 Critical Contributor
    Bugs aside, the 3.8 changes are an improvement.  That includes an undocumented change to the node 4 permanent support, to benefit you from using Vanguard abilities instead of punishing you.  But I'm still seeing people turned off by how much time it takes to get through all the nodes.

    When the official event description was added on the forums, it listed a recharge time of 8h.  That seemed reasonable; the actual 6h recharge seemed unreasonable.  None of those things have changed.  6h still seems unreasonable; 8h still seems better; and the forums still list the recharge time as 8h, when it's actually 6h.
  • RhasgetRhasget Posts: 412 Mover and Shaker
    I dislike it a lot
    The broken node that crash if Domri uses his ult is just awful. But the main issue for me is the slowdowns with the vanguards (not really the events fault though) and the new mana bonus counter. Coupled together with 4 nodes, 6h recharge and opponent decks that seem to fcous alot on removing and stalling, it's just tedious.
  • ArielSiraArielSira Posts: 336 Mover and Shaker
    Due to rl circumstances and the first run of Elderspark I stepped down from competative coalition play. Aside from that I do notice it's better this time around; only thing I would change still is the 6h recharge.
  • AvahadAvahad Posts: 239 Tile Toppler
    As above I stepped down to a less competitive coalition for this iteration of the event.

    I am enjoying it a lot more this time out but still detest the 6hr recharge after starting with 2 charges and the length of the event it just seems like you are always catching up
  • KajiyaKajiya Posts: 4 Just Dropped In
    edited October 2019
    I dislike it a lot
    poor rewards? check
    gamebreaking bugs? check
    grindy games? check
    alot of games in unenjoyable matchups? check
    bonus objectives that require you to play awful cards that slow down the grind even more? check
    made me almost quit mtgPQ? check

    were already putting up with alot of bugs and gameplay issues, this is the cherry ontop that just neuters the enjoyment.
  • ambrosio191ambrosio191 Posts: 31 Just Dropped In
    I like it a bit
    Progression reward tiers were halved with the 3.8 patch. The first run of this event had max progression at 1000 points.  Now it's 500.  I'd guess this was to address some of the grind.  Now the majority of players only need to play ~1/3rd of the event, instead of ~2/3rd. 

    Having greater access to vanguards (from planechase event), in combination with the adjusted secondaries have made this event playable.  I no longer feel like 2/3 of the set mechanics are useless because I now have vanguards to interact with.  The first time this ran I only had the free ones and two rares.  Ive also adjusted my decks which have made everything faster. 
  • hawkyh1hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2019
    I dislike it a lot
    it feels like the intention is to have extraordinarily lengthy
    minimum completion time for each and every battle.

    this is compounded by the broken card draw(took me 35
    turns to draw my first bsz,, 2x bsz amongst 40 cards)
    (broken again). one sided gem drops.

    there's a very small pool of cards for node 2.3 if you
    didn't want to be completely crippled by all of the raise
    mana cost cards greg was playing.
    (remember gonti heart win in 7 turns node?)

    what's with the waiting for nahiri to cast a creature in
    order to do berserker damage to it?


    HH
  • IM_CARLOSIM_CARLOS Posts: 640 Critical Contributor
    I dislike it a lot
    Eldersparks is a nogo and the first coalition event I didn't finished for around two years.

    Too much matches, too less rewards. Feels  more like grinding for peanuts than any other event. 

    A lot of bugs combined with slow games (vanguard, new mana bonus feature) cut the last will to do it for the team. My last match on node 4.3 just freeze away after 20 minutes of "work". 
  • IM_CARLOSIM_CARLOS Posts: 640 Critical Contributor
    I dislike it a lot
    starfall said:
    What I'm wondering is: Is this event more hated that RotGP was? Try and think back to the first time you played RotGP (so many moons ago!)... did you dislike it more or less than The Elderspark?

    Is Oktagon's intent in making The Elderspark to give us difficult games to play... are difficult games inherently unenjoyable?
    I don't think that the matches are too hard. Okay I have all the cards, but in eldersparks you can win a game without a specific card setup. 
    Former coalition event were so much harder without the right card setup/pw. 
  • ambrosio191ambrosio191 Posts: 31 Just Dropped In
    I like it a bit
    I thoroughly enjoyed RotGP, but I mostly prefer PvE to PvP.  There was nothing inherently difficult in RotGP (assuming you knew not to run creatures on Bolas). The only thing I didnt like about RotGP was the uncertain end time.  RotGP was also prime cycling era, so nothing about it could ever be considered difficult.

    I would say Bo4t is a more appropriate comparison.  That event was a long grind the first time it ran, progression was 90% of total points, and there were a few difficult fights/secondaries that made it hard to get max score, let alone progression.  They eventually adjusted progression way down, but there were still fights that just took forever.  It wasnt unusual for certain refreshes to take an hour+ to complete. 

    As much as people complain about progression being too low and not having a reason to continue playing past it, I think it's pretty clear now that attaining progression is a big part of an event being enjoyable, and there are now at least three instances proving that (remember RotGP had it's progression lowered as well).  People dont see a high progression and think, oh look at all the rewards I can get for continuing to play, they see it and go, oh looks like Ill never reach those, might as well not play the event.

    In Bo4t, the entire vampire node was a pain to sit through.  The worst fights in The Elderspark have the same problems as the vampire node.  You have decks that are built to counteract and punish you for going for the secondaries.  Assuming you can get past that, the decks and permanent supports are also set up to just reset everything on a whim, making everything you've done up to then pointless. 

    Take 2.3 in The Elderspark for example.  Your secondaries are deal 12 damage with spells/cast 3 (used to be 4) cards with partner.  Your first thought is to bring some kind of burn to deal your 12 damage, but the fight has 2 vanguards that increase the cost of your spells, so you dont want to bring a lot of spells because it's going to be hard to play them.  Lets assume you get past those vanguards, either by matching them down your painstakingly casting your removal.  You also managed to get some creatures down and kept his thopters under control.  You think great, Ive got this.  But then Greg plays some of the removal he has, plays lavinia, and because of the permanent support, fetches and plays more of those vanguards.  You are now back to square one, with Greg using his ability to drain your hand every other turn.  Then, after 20-30 minutes, you lose.  So you've just spent 20-30 minutes being punished and miserable, only to have to do it again because you lost, with no real idea how to improve, because you dont know if you just got unlucky or if your deck is faulty.  Then, 6 hours later, you have to do it again.  The Elderspark is full of fights like this.

    You can have long fights that dont feel grindy.  The fights have to have some progression to them where you feel like you are gaining the upper hand and eventually win.  I think back to the Tezz fight in RatC.  You start that fight at a disadvantage with his construct being so cheap.  You take some time but eventually get his construct under control as well as his many threats.  You get your side set up to finally start winning.  Nothing in his deck actively punishes you for going for the secondaries, but you do have to work around a few things to achieve them.  If I was going to lose one of those fights, I knew right away.  I was eager to try it again.  When I lose an Elderspark fight, im not eager to try again, im heartbroken.  Honestly, the first time the event ran, I was heartbroken when I won, because I knew there were 4 more fights x4 to clear just from that day.
  • ArielSiraArielSira Posts: 336 Mover and Shaker
    Rotgp is the best event; 3 nodes, 8h recharges and I think it starts with 1 charge only (healthbar instead of set time sucks though). The only reason it was disliked was due to it being every other week while Hibernum was dying.

    It's Legacy too, making all your gathered goodies feel useful.
  • OpperstamperOpperstamper Posts: 64 Match Maker
    I dislike it a lot
    And that's all about time. Ok, and bugs. I would vote #2 if we had 8h recharges and #1 if it was a day shorter too. Provided all the bugs get fixed and all changes are announced correctly. 
  • DologanDologan Posts: 145 Tile Toppler
    I dislike it a lot
    I don't mind the matches and objectives themselves, but the event is too damn long and grindy with the 4x 6h refreshes for pitiful rewards. It's just not worth giving up such a big chunk of my weekend for it
  • BilBil Posts: 716 Critical Contributor
    I dislike it a lot
    The encounters are interesting in terms of design ... But the event itself is just a pain to deal with ...

    The few changes that have been made are just out of measure ... Reducing the lifepool by 50 has absolutely no impact on the boredom or the abusive number of daily charges.

    However, reducing the progression limit is nice ... At least you can choose to drop the event before absolute saturation.
  • VolrakVolrak Posts: 650 Critical Contributor
    Something I forgot about in my earlier post - the event end time is atrocious in Australian Eastern Standard Time (which is 80% of all Australians).  The exact times depend on your flavour of daylight saving time, but where I am, the final node only becomes available at 1:00am, and the event ends at 7:00am.

    I think it's unlikely I will play the event competitively again unless the situation changes.

    (Incidentally, increasing the node recharge time to 8h would kick off the last charge at 11:00pm, which would be a bit more doable.)
  • Mburn7Mburn7 Posts: 3,298 Chairperson of the Boards
    I dislike it a bit
    This event is 4 nodes with 6 hour refreshes that runs for 4 days.

    Progression barely does anything, I only played the final node and left more than a half a dozen charges unplayed on it and still got full progression with room to spare.  There is no motivation to play an extra 50 hours of this for no rewards if you aren't in a top coalition.

    The fights are ridiculous, where they are hard enough to beat most random jank decks but can't put up much of a fight against any good deck.  I used the same Tammy deck with 2 cards swapped for objectives and won every fight easily.  I tried some weirder builds with other walkers and got stomped in like 10 turns.

    I do not love this event.
  • QuantiusQuantius Posts: 226 Tile Toppler
    I like it a bit
    Bugs aside, this is a looong event with weak prize structure.
  • KlepKlep Posts: 49 Just Dropped In
    I dislike it a lot
    The changes are definitely improvements, but they don't address what was always the core problem with the event.  It's 52 games, with 4 games every 6 hours over three days.  You can hit full progression after a day or so, and then the rest is a relentless slog with only the average coalition rewards at the end.  My entire weekend becomes dedicated to finding the time to get my games played, and it makes it really hard to be motivated.
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