Cycling drains mana from Stored Mana card

TheDude1

From white node on current ToA event.

Had a completely full BSZ as the only card in my hand.  Drew a card with cycling (can't remember which one exactly, but it was a creature), decided I didn't want it so sent it to discard.  I drew a new card so the cycling action took effect correctly, but it drained mana from BSZ even though as a stored mana card it shouldn't ever have mana drained or raised.

Mburn7

That actually makes sense though, since otherwise you're either unable to cycle with stored mana cards or cycling for free, neither of which sounds correct.

TheDude1

It may make sense, but then either (a) cycling the card shouldn't be possible since no mana is technically available for the function, or (b) the note about "mana cannot be drained or raised" needs to go away.

Plus, it's inconsistent since other cards have their drain effect take place without actually draining from a stored mana card - for example, Saproling Migration still creates all four saprolings without actually draining 3 mana.

Mburn7

TheDude1 said:

It may make sense, but then either (a) cycling the card shouldn't be possible since no mana is technically available for the function, or (b) the note about "mana cannot be drained or raised" needs to go away.

Plus, it's inconsistent since other cards have their drain effect take place without actually draining from a stored mana card - for example, Saproling Migration still creates all four saprolings without actually draining 3 mana.

Huh, really?  Guess I either never noticed it or never really tried it.

@Tombstone I guess please let the team know there is an inconsistency between cards that you cast that "drain mana" from cards in your hand and cards with "mana cannot be drained or raised" (I assume this is a general issue not just with Stored Mana cards but with others with that subtext as well)

ssenillis

Not sure how the cycling ability reads here, but it seems analogous to the difference between an ability and paying a cost in paper magic.  When you cycle, you're paying a cost.  All the "drain mana from" cards are more like abilities.

Machine

Cycling is not considered a draining ability. I tried cycling with Chorus of the Conclave. Cycling didn't trigger Chorus's ability.

Tremayne

Machine said:

Cycling is not considered a draining ability. I tried cycling with Chorus of the Conclave. Cycling didn't trigger Chorus's ability.

You are totally correct: cycling is not draining mana in the sense of the CotC definition!

According to the support page https://d3go.helpshift.com/a/magic-puzzle-quest/?s=gameplay-questions---general&f=mtgpq-abilities-gallery&p=all cycling is defined as follows:

Cycling

When this card is exiled from your hand, if you have at least X mana accumulated in your cards, where X is the amount listed next to the keyword, and you are drained of X mana. You then draw 1 card.

(I have highlighted the word: drained)

Furthermore there are 3 definitions relating to the Cycling mechanism, which muddles the picture. The definition above is most likely the definitive, but there is also a Cycle definition and a icon description to the cycling icon.


On top of that the “stored mana” icon states

Cards with stored mana can’t have their mana drained or raised.

(Taken from the Hydroid Krasis card)

Cycling a card will reduce the amount of stored mana, but will not trigger the ability of CotC.
(Tested with Hydroid Krasis and Ugin’s conjurant).

So the word “drain” is used inconsistently, which may not be all that surprising since it is two different developers who made the implementation of “drain”.

Oddly enough, when casting “Rhona’s last stand” CotC does trigger, so it seems that it is not a set specific issue. Update - but RLS does not drain cards with Stored mana!

To end, I would like to state that I do acknowledge the developers have a huge task trying to align such inconsistencies nor that I expect it to be fixed anytime soon, given the size of the development studio. I’m simply saying that it is these types of inconsistencies that makes MTGPQ such a surprising adventure to play, because you never know what you are going to find behind the next bend in the road.

TheDude1

Random update, I assume as part of 3.8:  Saproling Migration's effect no longer triggers if the only mana in your hand is in a Stored Mana card.