Thoughts about Vanguards (was - Greg and Vanguards)

starfall
starfall Posts: 1,727 Chairperson of the Boards
edited June 2019 in MtGPQ General Discussion
Are Vanguards going to be essentially unkillable against Greg?
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Comments

  • jtwood
    jtwood Posts: 1,285 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2019
    Why would they be unkillable?
    Regular gem destruction from StV or green gem changers will plow through them. I've also been playing Angrath's Rampage in Standard TG so that it can kill that random vanguard but still have value against the 90% of decks that will have no vanguards. River's Rebuke should do the trick, too. There are options.
  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    I don't think RR will work, as Vanguards need to be explicitly included to be targeted, but if you read the card, Vangaurds would be non-land supports....
  • jtwood
    jtwood Posts: 1,285 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'd like to see Shatterstorm vs Vanguards
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  • jtwood
    jtwood Posts: 1,285 Chairperson of the Boards
    starfall said:
    Cards that used to kill "supports" will not work on Vanguards; River's Rebuke, Demolish, etc.
    Right, but this is MTGPQ. Have you actually tried any of those cards yet? I'm betting the number of cards that don't work as stated is a non-zero number.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Based on the tutorial Greg will self-destruct his Vanguards using their abilities.

    So no need to worry much!
  • wereotter
    wereotter Posts: 2,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mburn7 said:
    Based on the tutorial Greg will self-destruct his Vanguards using their abilities.

    So no need to worry much!
    Most Vanguards should survive with one shield after you deplete the activations. But that should be easily removed with a simple match.

    I'm not sure how he handles the vanguard supports that can increase shield count rather than just deplete 
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    this is apt to decide if this type was a game maker or a game breaker, leaning towards breaker honestly with the limited ways to get them and the difficulty of destroying them
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  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    now new players having that card and the chances are even lower, and even with veterans guess what already full decks need van killers as a default.
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    starfall said:
    morgue427 said:
    now new players having that card and the chances are even lower, and even with veterans guess what already full decks need van killers as a default.
    If you're playing answers you need an answer to vanguard supports and to non-vanguard supports; that's two cards.

    One thing I hate about the latest phase of MTGPQ design is the decision to subdivide supports into subtypes. What, am I going to play FOUR different answer cards in my ten card deck? No, I'm going to play Demolish. Print as many cards that affect Enchantments or Artifacts as you like; I'm still just going to play Demolish.
    Yeah, I’ve always felt that demolish... demolishes... the competition
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,261 Chairperson of the Boards
    jtwood said:
    starfall said:
    Cards that used to kill "supports" will not work on Vanguards; River's Rebuke, Demolish, etc.
    Right, but this is MTGPQ. Have you actually tried any of those cards yet? I'm betting the number of cards that don't work as stated is a non-zero number.
     
    I can attest that Greg fizzled two Demolishes against my Vanguard.  They cast, and appeared, but then disappeared without destroying the support or triggering the gem block destruction.
  • Raistlin
    Raistlin Posts: 54 Match Maker
    madwren said:
    jtwood said:
    starfall said:
    Cards that used to kill "supports" will not work on Vanguards; River's Rebuke, Demolish, etc.
    Right, but this is MTGPQ. Have you actually tried any of those cards yet? I'm betting the number of cards that don't work as stated is a non-zero number.
     
    I can attest that Greg fizzled two Demolishes against my Vanguard.  They cast, and appeared, but then disappeared without destroying the support or triggering the gem block destruction.
    I had the this happen also, where Greg played Demolish when I had a Vanguard out, and it didn't do anything. I didn't have any regular supports on the board either. 
  • Stormcrow
    Stormcrow Posts: 464 Mover and Shaker
    And you guys thought I was kidding!
  • ElfNeedsFood
    ElfNeedsFood Posts: 944 Critical Contributor
    jtwood said:
    I'd like to see Shatterstorm vs Vanguards
    I will just "Destroy All The Gems!"
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,261 Chairperson of the Boards
    Stormcrow said:
    And you guys thought I was kidding!
    To the contrary, I thought your post was great and wish they'd listened. Or hired you. =)
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  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    starfall said:
    According to official rules, are support killers (like Demolish or Smash To Smithereens) supposed to kill Vanguards or not? I'd surmised that they weren't, but is there an official ruling on this?
    In the WAR release notes they specifically said that cards cannot destroy Vanguards unless they explicitly say that they can.

    Ideally they would update some older cards that should be able to kill Vanguards, but they haven't yet and most likely never will.

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