Vhailorx said: DAZ0273 said: Vhailorx said: jamesh said: turbomoose said: Black widow is only useful for recharging the health of her teammates. But when you reach 5* matches health bonuses don’t really help much While she's not great, she offers more than that. Lowering power costs is nothing to sniff at. And her ability to remove special tiles comes in handy. In the current Valkyrie PVP tournament, I've used her to force a few Professor X's out of hiding. No, lowering power cost via an active power IS something to sniff at. It's just too inefficient. If you play her on team that cares about other colors, and you happen to collect yellow from Cascades, fine. It's nice to have cheaper powers. But you should never design a team to collect yellow AP so that you can use it to make other powers cheaper. That is a waste of time and effort. You are better off with a team that can use the yellow AP for some direct effect. Also, much of the meta right now is a passive one. So reducing active costs is less valuable than it otherwise might me. I might use her with Sabretooth once I have him up to speed, he gets some healing then and his cheap powers become even more spammable. Nah, you should just collect more red AP to cast sabretooth red again. Collecting the AP to fuel BW to cast saber red is a waste of time (I have been saying this since original 4*SL).And if you really want a yellow outlet to imrprove sabretooth, im40 will make a bigger impact every time.
DAZ0273 said: Vhailorx said: jamesh said: turbomoose said: Black widow is only useful for recharging the health of her teammates. But when you reach 5* matches health bonuses don’t really help much While she's not great, she offers more than that. Lowering power costs is nothing to sniff at. And her ability to remove special tiles comes in handy. In the current Valkyrie PVP tournament, I've used her to force a few Professor X's out of hiding. No, lowering power cost via an active power IS something to sniff at. It's just too inefficient. If you play her on team that cares about other colors, and you happen to collect yellow from Cascades, fine. It's nice to have cheaper powers. But you should never design a team to collect yellow AP so that you can use it to make other powers cheaper. That is a waste of time and effort. You are better off with a team that can use the yellow AP for some direct effect. Also, much of the meta right now is a passive one. So reducing active costs is less valuable than it otherwise might me. I might use her with Sabretooth once I have him up to speed, he gets some healing then and his cheap powers become even more spammable.
Vhailorx said: jamesh said: turbomoose said: Black widow is only useful for recharging the health of her teammates. But when you reach 5* matches health bonuses don’t really help much While she's not great, she offers more than that. Lowering power costs is nothing to sniff at. And her ability to remove special tiles comes in handy. In the current Valkyrie PVP tournament, I've used her to force a few Professor X's out of hiding. No, lowering power cost via an active power IS something to sniff at. It's just too inefficient. If you play her on team that cares about other colors, and you happen to collect yellow from Cascades, fine. It's nice to have cheaper powers. But you should never design a team to collect yellow AP so that you can use it to make other powers cheaper. That is a waste of time and effort. You are better off with a team that can use the yellow AP for some direct effect. Also, much of the meta right now is a passive one. So reducing active costs is less valuable than it otherwise might me.
jamesh said: turbomoose said: Black widow is only useful for recharging the health of her teammates. But when you reach 5* matches health bonuses don’t really help much While she's not great, she offers more than that. Lowering power costs is nothing to sniff at. And her ability to remove special tiles comes in handy. In the current Valkyrie PVP tournament, I've used her to force a few Professor X's out of hiding.
turbomoose said: Black widow is only useful for recharging the health of her teammates. But when you reach 5* matches health bonuses don’t really help much
Vhailorx said: Nah, you should just collect more red AP to cast sabretooth red again. Collecting the AP to fuel BW to cast saber red is a waste of time (I have been saying this since original 4*SL).And if you really want a yellow outlet to imrprove sabretooth, im40 will make a bigger impact every time.
Nah, you should just collect more red AP to cast sabretooth red again. Collecting the AP to fuel BW to cast saber red is a waste of time (I have been saying this since original 4*SL).
ThaRoadWarrior said: Vhailorx said: Nah, you should just collect more red AP to cast sabretooth red again. Collecting the AP to fuel BW to cast saber red is a waste of time (I have been saying this since original 4*SL).And if you really want a yellow outlet to imrprove sabretooth, im40 will make a bigger impact every time. Shuri ftw on making things cheaper while simultaneously making enemy things more expensive.
ThaRoadWarrior said: Depends on who they're with - as long as you keep n fortified tiles out, Shuri just gives out that AP discount/tax passively. Since it's not countdown based, it just works. So ST will have that 3AP red as long as the condition is met.
Daredevil217 said: Just dropping in to defend Natasha. 4* players want big damage or cheap damage powers. But as you become a 5* player, support and powers that don’t scale with levels (stun, AP drain/steal, battery, tile swap, etc.) become more important for that essential third character. Without going back to page 1 and looking at the poll options I can confidently say there is no one on the list (aside from “other”) that I’d want alongside Thorkoye. Thor provides more than enough yellow to proc Brush Pass. Using yellow to drop AP costs by three, is huge. You know all that black AP Thorkoye collects with no outlet? You now have a 5AP stun (that does Okoye boosted damage as a bonus and drains 3 AP each turn they remained stunned). Thor’s red is 6 AP, his green is 9. Then you can top off Okoye for just 4 AP. Widow can really speed up this already speedy team, while also providing a purple outlet that has corner case uses (again... in 5* land those corner cases happen more often than you think with hard to reach Gritty tiles being a thing every other match). Widow is solidly mid tier and shouldn’t be on this list.
TranscendGod said: I often like to climb the simulator while using every 4* at least once. I also like to use each of the boosted 4*s in PvPs and non-release PvEs for fun, so I have a fair amount of experience with the weaker 4s. I agree with most of you about Emma and Talos being terrible 4* characters. However, I'm going to attempt to make the case that Emma is quite a bit worse than Talos. Talos has a passive that is mostly useless for 5* players, but can be somewhat useful for other players in certain circumstances. When required, his passive can make things a bit faster for a 4* player (especially if you equip a support that can make him cover more colors). He also has a decent stun (4 turns for 9 blue with a high chance of reducing their strongest color by 5 while creating a juicy countdown for characters like carol). Emma has no free passive (costs 11 black to activate, and is fairly weak). But her main problem is that the numbers on her abilities are extremely low. I've tried to make her work with various teams, especially with Shuri so I could get several yellow repeaters out. But the numbers are pitiful (compare her yellow to 4* Panther), and it takes forever to win unless the other characters do most of the work.As for the other characters on the list: Prowler is a fairly good 4*. His numbers are solid, his stun is sweet, and his passive is inconsistent yet powerful. That being said since nearly everyone here seems to agree I'll move on to the next character.Jubilee is awesome for a 4* player when featured or boosted. I've had some of my fastest PvP climbs thanks to her. She can also be incredibly quick in PvE, and amusing in some other events. When boosted from a relatively low level (~270-280), she does 2600-2800 damage per match when her passive's condition is met. When max champed and boosted I imagine it would be at least double that amount. And much like Thor, you can intentionally ensure that her health is reasonably low to consistently enable her passive. Her green is also a decent AOE/utility that makes her passive activate for all 3 of your characters. When you want to take down a difficult opponent, a boosted Jubilee is fantastic (particularly if they have special tiles that you want to remove). Her purple is weird and fairly weak. Anyhow, I understand why most 5* players don't like her. Her passive is her strongest asset, so if it's difficult to activate she will be weak.Black Widow is fairly decent, mid tier at worst. In the recent Valkyrie PvP, I used her with America to get her yellow going so that her black stun + AP drain only cost 5 and valkyrie's red cost 8. Was great for conserving health packs (in my initial climb from 0 - 1100 something, I didn't need to use a health pack until the 900s partly thanks to her). She's also a lot of fun to play around with (especially with Shuri or Starlord for massive cost reduction for silly combos). Her purple is awful. Although I suppose it's useful in 1v1s and some other odd situations.Kingpin is one of the weaker 4s, but he's not too close to the bottom. When they made his black bad, they made his yellow far stronger (and it was decent before his update). When boosted/featured, he can do great things with Shuri. Combine them with an automatic AP generator (like America with boosts or Hood) and you can Shuri Red -> Kingpin Purple -> Kingpin Yellow (often multiple times). You'll randomly lose a bunch of his countdowns but they are so powerful it doesn't matter. It's also hilarious. Hood is nice because you can use his cost reduced black to accelerate Kingpin yellow. You can also use (5/5/3) carol for ridiculously massive strike tiles (although that's more for fun because it has a slow start). The others are just fairly weak (lockjaw is almost okay in the right situation, but there are typically better options).
PiMacleod said: I must be the only person who thinks Namor is the worst. Everything he does is too expensive to be worthwhile. By the time the match is wrapped up, he's finally ready to fire.At least Talos has cheaper powers than Namor, and a stun is part of it. Namor has mainly damage and a color change. All of which take too long to get to.But maybe that's just me.