Crazy Dilution Suggestion

JohnnyStacks
JohnnyStacks Posts: 33 Just Dropped In
in MPQ General Discussion
Everyone can agree dilution sucks.  So, I have an idea, albeit, kind of a crazy one...but, what if MPQ started "retiring" characters.  I remember back when OML was nerfed, they through out a statistic for the % of battles that he was involved in, claiming it was crazy high.  With that knowledge, one can only assume that the developers can just as easily determine the LEAST used characters.  

So, establish a sweet spot for what they think is a "comfortable" amount of 4* and 5* characters.  Everyone time they want to release a new character, check the data, and then retire the least used character in that tier (aside from newer releases).  Compensation could be argued about.  I personally think the best, least offensive compensation would be to establish 4* and 5* only stores and reward rosters that have a retiring character with 1:1 cover compensation.  Probably some ISO should be thrown in as well.

This would put a stop on the ever expanding universe of characters, and then allow players a chance to build their roster.  Also, it would encourage players to make sure they actually use characters they don't want to see retire.  It will also allow the devs to recover gracefully from poorly designed suck characters that just sit on the bench until they are required to be used.

Probability?  Probably low.  But, whatever.  
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Comments

  • Waddles_Pines
    Waddles_Pines Posts: 1,229 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think they should have characters rotate per season.  Go back to vaulting, and also increase odds of latest characters.  
  • Waddles_Pines
    Waddles_Pines Posts: 1,229 Chairperson of the Boards
    firethorne said:
    Alternate idea, have a classic/retired selector reward.  You get one, you can just apply it as a cover to any retired character of your choice.  RNG is the problem.  The solution is simple, remove the RNG.
    To add onto this, I've posted this in the past, but we should also get a certain number of anti-bonus heroes per star tier.  For example, give us 5 per tier where those characters are eliminated from draws (excluding latest legendary's).  

    I wasn't sure if by reward you meant a new token, reward, or something like the above. 
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,822 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2019
    As @firethorne alluded to, the issue with retirement is that you have so many characters, and what is the floor, and what if someone's favorite character is not very popular?  And what if they are soooo close to finishing someone who's now retired?  How do they feel?

    The other thing is that vets have champed many people they never use but would start losing out on the champ rewards.  If they are high level (say, 330 or so) I have a good chance of getting 7 CP from my next cover for them.  Remove that person from rewards, and it's likely that in trade (under your proposal), I'm getting covers for newer character which pay out much less in CP since they are at a far lower level.

    It would not feel good if I lose the ability to earn covers for the oldest characters that I don't use but pay out high end champ rewards.  Those rewards drive a lot of my pulls and 5* progress.


    The fact is that there are no good/easy answers to dilution.  Every option will result in compromises and I suspect players will lose something we have now in trade for reducing it.  This is probably one of the reasons it's been lingering and building for so long.  The best options for players is increased rewards, but the devs won't just start giving out lots of rewards to us without taking something away, and the change will be at least somewhat unpopular.

    I suppose the true options are do something that will be unpopular with some players, or do nothing and watch more people stop paying and/or playing.

    EDIT!!!:  I forgot about FEEDERS!  Drax, Jubilee, BWIW, Kate Bishop, Mr F....these are some of the decidedly non-meta characters that feed 5* covers.  Retirement just isn't an option right now.
  • Wonko33
    Wonko33 Posts: 985 Critical Contributor
    just give us 10 slots where we can select characters that have a 2x or 3x or whatever better chance of getting - all lsot must be filled so that we don't get to "snipe" a specific one

    10 slots for 4*
    5 slots for 5*

    That way people who are trying to get the new guys AND people who want to complete their collections both can fight dilution
  • AXP_isme
    AXP_isme Posts: 809 Critical Contributor
    I think we all agree that dilution is a problem. I’m in favour of anything that helps to improve that situation but you need to ask yourself if this idea makes money. If the answer is no then it’s unlikely to ever see the light of day. 

    Will people open more tokens? No. Will they buy more resources to push their roster forward? No. Will they buy more roster slots? No, probably less if you retire a character and replace it with a new one. 

    More tokens and token types encourages people to spend when they wouldn’t have before. As an approach it also seems to be acceptable to the bean counters hence the proliferation of special stores. More and more special stores would seem to be the most likely way to get anywhere on the dilution problem. Sorry to rain on your parade. 
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    Start by retiring bishop.
  • randomhero1090
    randomhero1090 Posts: 396 Mover and Shaker
    I've brought this up several times....  Most vets i've talked to said HECK NO.  And I get it.  Part of this game is the collecting aspect.

    I see more of an issue covering 5s then 4s, but that's me.  I do think more CP should be available in the game.  Special stores have been popping up, so that helps.
  • AlexR
    AlexR Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker
    The other issue (besides favourite characters, champ rewards and feeders) with retiring characters is that this is a collection game. If you make it flat-out impossible for players to get some characters anymore, then you ruin the "gotta catch 'em all" aspect.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Taking characters out of the game is not a good idea. 

    Take mr fantastic as an example. He was reworked because he was the least used F4 member. Under your proposal he is no longer in the game and they will compensate me with other covers to release a new 4*. 

    No thanks from me.
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    I just think they need to split 4s into there own token and 5s in there own token. 

    Also they should have used shield rank to determine a different percentage of what characters you earn. For instance, let say you hit level 100, your heroic token draw chances now remove 2s from the pool, and now you only earn 3s and 4s only.


  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,822 Chairperson of the Boards
    Just wanted to toss this out there.....a somewhat meaningless anecdote...but it took me 130 (Legendary) pulls from the time 4nos entered tokens until I actually got one.  I didn't bonus him but it shows how crazy dilution can be.

    You are 5X more likely to get a character you "bonused" vs getting them from a random pull (as a bonus on top of some other character).

    Bonus heroes are no longer the way you get more covers for someone, they are basically one of the only ways (other than specific covers in rewards) to get someone with any reliability.
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards

    One idea that I doubt they'd ever implement would be a "bonus heroes only" store.  Require the user to heart a minimum number of 4* and 5* characters, and then sell a token that draws from that set.  That way it doesn't matter how many characters total there are: the odds would remain constant.

  • AXP_isme
    AXP_isme Posts: 809 Critical Contributor
    jamesh said:

    One idea that I doubt they'd ever implement would be a "bonus heroes only" store.  Require the user to heart a minimum number of 4* and 5* characters, and then sell a token that draws from that set.  That way it doesn't matter how many characters total there are: the odds would remain constant.

    Something similar has been suggested plenty of times before. The major problem with letting people pick their own pool of characters and getting better odds for them in tokens is that it entrenches a particular meta. RNG has a lot of problems of course but it does create a situation in which you have to work with what you get. You spend resources as you see fit, which gives you a chance to affect the outcome, but imagine how much worse the thorkoye, panthos, gambit, gritty/grishop(?), cardusa or grockdusa metas would have been if people could have levelled those characters faster and further than they do today, or did at the time. We’ve seen that the dev team struggle to come up with effective counters quickly. I’m not an RNG fanboy by any stretch but it’s not always the worst option. 
  • matthatter
    matthatter Posts: 151 Tile Toppler
    Or just remove 2 stars from the heroic packs and increase the odds of a 4 star pull.
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    matthatter said:
    Or just remove 2 stars from the heroic packs and increase the odds of a 4 star pull.
    It would have to be a new token to replace it because there are people sitting on literally thousands of heroic tokens.
  • captainheath
    captainheath Posts: 255 Mover and Shaker
    PartyOfFore said:
    As a casual player, my dilution solution is to not put any more money into the game until something changes in the game to help someone like me out. I don't mean this as a threat, but I just cannot justify putting more money into this game when I can't make any noticeable progress on my roster.  Buying HP to use for slots just gets me more characters with 1-2 covers that will remain unplayable for probably years, so what's the point?  

    I have taken breaks from the game, but I keep coming back. It's like a stress security blanket that provides a nice break from life. So I'll still be playing, but no more paying.  If I don't have the HP for a new slot, that cover will be sold. For my play style it won't make a difference.   
    I have also stopped putting money into the game about 5 months ago.  I check the forums regularly to see if changes are coming because I really do like the premise of the game.  But just doing DDP for now.  I also cannot justify putting more money into this game.  I put in plenty of money over 5 years, but there just isn't enough new to justify it anymore.

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