When should I stop opening Classics?

froggerjohn

https://mpq.gamependium.com/rosters/froggerjohn/revisions/154

Summary:
All 5*s rostered, except Hawkeye and Thanos (will pick up Rescue from LTs next week)
114 LTs, 400K iso.

20 4* champs
27 at 13 covers, awaiting iso
26 at 10+ covers, level 209
5 at 9 covers
6 below that (worst is BP at 5 covers)

I've been opening Classics as soon as I get 20 CP with the intention of building the 4* roster to 10+ covers for SHIELD training and DDQ Crash.

But starting to get to diminishing returns. 4* tokens now have the following odds: (including rough estimates for increased "saved cover" odds due to pulling a color I already have five of)
24% champ level
49% saved cover
15% progress towards 13 covers
5% 10th cover
7% progress towards 10 covers

Granted, the saved cover feature means none of the covers are wasted, but as fewer and fewer covers provide meaningful roster progress, there comes a time when hoarding CP for special stores will be of greater benefit. (I use LTs to pick up the new 5e).

Note that I have no plans to enter the 5* tier anytime in the foreseeable future, or likely ever. But I do want to continue enjoying 4* play for awhile longer, and can see supplementing that with specific soft-capped 5s. Like picking up yellow covers for my 0/4/3 Kitty, for example.

That said, it's pretty hard to achieve specific goals like that without large hoards, so evaluating the tradeoffs is not obvious to me right now. Any general tips for how to manage the roster at this stage of the game would be welcome.

Dormammu

I'd jump out of classics now. Those last two annoying 5s that you don't have are... well, annoying. I can't remember who has feeders and who feeds who, but I do remember my last couple uncovered 5s came from feeders and not tokens.

You have a lot of 4-stars ready to champ and that's going to take you a while due to the ISO cost. I'd focus your ISO flow on those and let your other 4-stars grow into 13 covers organically. RNG will be stubborn with you and there'll be a couple 4-stars that are unicorns for you and you struggle to get 13 covers, but diligent PvE play and Bonus Heroes can usually take care of that in time.

Note that I have no plans to enter the 5* tier anytime in the foreseeable future, or likely ever.

I used to say the same thing. One day you're going to find yourself with a fully-covered 5-star or three. I look forward to your forum post asking 'should I champ my 5-stars?'

Resource management is one of the hardest things to do in this game. The only thing I can do is tell you what I do:

CPs - I generally hoard these and spend them in special stores
LTs - I hoard these between seasons. If I already have at least 1 cover of the newest 5-star when they enter the latest three, and I don't want any more, I'll roll the hoard over and keep going until the next 5-star enters. Otherwise I open them until I get that one cover needed for 5e nodes and stop. When I feel like there's a decent group in the latest 3 I'll burn the hoard.
Heroics - I hoard these between seasons too. The reason I do this is for getting the newest 4-stars covered enough for SHIELD training (and closer to 13 covers) when they enter tokens. What I do is set them as my sole bonus hero and open the hoard of Heroic tokens. This has worked really well for me.

Hoarding is going to slow the steady roster growth when compared to the open-as-you-go method and trade that for bursts of growth. But I prefer the bursts as you can be more strategic with the timing of them.

froggerjohn

Thank you for the notes. Although, I'm not too concerned about the missing 5*s (despite them both being good), as much as stalling what has felt like really great progress in the 4* tier. (And in particular, the 11 4*s that are less than 209-capable).

Granted, that's inevitable regardless, as the number of "beneficial covers" towards that goal diminishes.
(Which is in fact, the very reason for this topic, with more and more covers being 'saved' on characters that won't be champed anytime soon).

The more interesting part of the question perhaps, is what would end up advancing my roster in a meaningful way?
With almost all of the top-tier 4*s champed or champable, it feels like the next evolutionary stage will come from soft-capped usable 5*s, like Kitty, or Okoye. Hoarding CP (and waiting for them to be in a special store) is the only reasonable means of getting somewhere with those.

There's only a few downsides to switching to that approach:
- 20% fewer covers overall
- delayed development of 4*s, which could mean fewer completable Crashes, SHIELD Trainings, or boosted opportunities
- compound resource loss resulting from the first two
- whatever emotional/enjoyment elements come from opening covers

I'm definitely ready to ignore the last one. Largely because it's already both a positive and negative experience, so a more 'strategic' approach to opening covers should naturally be a net win.

I'm also ready, I think, to ignore the first one. 'Volume' has the greatest impact early in the tier, with that benefit steadily decreasing thereafter. While not yet 'insignificant' (which would make the decision trivial), it's certainly less important than it once was. And it seems less important now than targeted growth from specific stores.

Thus, it really comes down to the middle two, and that's where I'm having the hardest time estimating the impact. So much of the game's economy is dependent upon the leverage of resources, so it's naturally scary to contemplate a reduction of that cycle. 

 I look forward to your forum post asking 'should I champ my 5-stars?'

Lol... Indeed, that will be funny. It's possible. 

Dormammu

froggerjohn said:

- delayed development of 4*s

...it really comes down to the middle two, and that's where I'm having the hardest time estimating the impact. So much of the game's economy is dependent upon the leverage of resources, so it's naturally scary to contemplate a reduction of that cycle. 

Like I said above, you trade steady day-to-day growth for bursts of growth, when you hoard. But you end up in the same place. Ex: If you hoard for a month, instead of getting your covers one at a time you get them all in one lump sum at the end of the month. I actually enjoy the burst method, it's fun to spend a pile of resources.

The volume loss from spending CP on either latest 3 or special vaults, when compared to the reduced price in Classic Legends, is acceptable if you have 5-star aspirations. There's no better way to cover 5-stars than to buy from vaults where there's only 3 possible 5-stars to pull from. Classic Legends is a wasteland of dilution that's no good for covering 5-stars in a reasonable amount of time.

When you enter the phase of the game you are, and as you continue to champ 4-stars, those 4-star champ rewards start netting you the tools you need to strive for fives. You'll start getting more LTs, CP, and 5-star covers from feeders. It won't be long before you have some usable 5 stars.

Rod5

It’s your choice to stay in 4* land vs pushing to move up, the only thing I’d highlight is with 5* land the rewards are potentially greater (ie PvE CL9/actual placement rewards in PvP).

My only advice would be to leave Latest tokens alone and let them grow...you can pull what you need covers-wise with CP, so if 3 Latests come around that you actually do want you are in a position to chase them. 

The only issue with with that is that CP generation is a bit chicken and egg...to generate good inflows you need a bigger roster, which you need to spend CP to get.

Maybe hoard during each season and decide what you want to do with it at the end?

ThaRoadWarrior

You can get Thano5 from G4mora and Hawkeye from Kate Bishop. 

froggerjohn

With only 200 CP, I still tried my luck on the Wrestling Demons store, and got spectacular results.
1 Kitty yellow! to 1/4/3  
1 Strange blue to 1/1/2
Champ levels in Wasp and Grocket, which I use all the time.
A 4* Thanos, and misc others.

froggerjohn

Thanks for the feeder info, that's great news. It means I don't have to worry about those last two 5s.