Tamiyo, Field Researcher: Official Thread

andrewvanmarle

HomeRn said:

From initial impressions, Tamiyo's 3rd is borderline broken.  +12 mana gains in 3 colors is bonkers for 6 turns.  Her 3rd needs to be dialed back a bit!

Her gameplay is basically control the board as much as possible, stall until you get to Tamiyo's 3rd, then overpower Greg by being able to get ridiculous mana gains on about half the gems on the board.

Personally, I don't think Tamiyo's 3rd should boost mana gains by no more than +8 (to keep her in line with those of Koth's and Elspeth's mana gains... briefly).

erm.... sorry no. I disagree. The power of her ult is that singular burst of mana, mana blocking tamiyo kills any effectivity of her ult. So i'd say that the reward (lotsa mana) is good for having an ult that doesnt do much else.

Stalker

HomeRn said:

From initial impressions, Tamiyo's 3rd is borderline broken.  +12 mana gains in 3 colors is bonkers for 6 turns.  Her 3rd needs to be dialed back a bit!

Her gameplay is basically control the board as much as possible, stall until you get to Tamiyo's 3rd, then overpower Greg by being able to get ridiculous mana gains on about half the gems on the board.

Personally, I don't think Tamiyo's 3rd should boost mana gains by no more than +8 (to keep her in line with those of Koth's and Elspeth's mana gains... briefly).

You’re right, she should be nerfed to the point that only those with the big collections and chase cards should be able to use her powers. (Still in complete exhausting sarcastic tone) it literally disgusts me that a ftp player was allowed to get her without a cash purchase and can use a decent starter collection and have fun. Haven’t slept well since she came out seeing as how easy she was to get and use.

on a serious note, concerns are valid; however, a little more time to see how she is used is needed to determine the proper level of balance if any is applied. Little hesitant knowing a new release is coming soon and a lot is rotating out? Just be  careful what you wish for. Sometimes it can be hard due to emotions to look forward.

wereotter

She's finally here! And immediately I'm not sure how I want to build a deck for her.... but hey, at least I'm happy to have her  

morgue427

know what you mean, i had to think long and hard about weather to buy her with a new set coming soon, she won but it was a tough call just grinding like crazy to get gems back for the set

Mburn7

Throwing my 2 cents in to the nerf conversation:

I don't think Tammiyo needs a nerf, but **** she is stupid strong.

My second take of a deck with her (feat. 2 mp, 2 rares, and 6 common/uncommons) is almost guaranteed to win before turn 4, with the only way to stop it being trash draws.
Is that nerf-worthy in today's game?  I don't think so.  
Would it have been nerf-worthy in Innistrad when she should have come out?  Absolutely.

wereotter

Mburn7 said:

Throwing my 2 cents in to the nerf conversation:

I don't think Tammiyo needs a nerf, but tinykitty she is stupid strong.

My second take of a deck with her (feat. 2 mp, 2 rares, and 6 common/uncommons) is almost guaranteed to win before turn 4, with the only way to stop it being trash draws.
Is that nerf-worthy in today's game?  I don't think so.  
Would it have been nerf-worthy in Innistrad when she should have come out?  Absolutely.

I don't have her at max level yet, but I don't think she needs a nerf. Just yet, but I do reserve final judgment once I play her more and play against her more.

Her suite of abilities are solid, but her mana gains without her third ability are pretty weak when compared to Sarkhan and Bolas. Only +2 on white and green and +3 on blue. She will be incredibly weak once Storm the Vault rotates out of standard, and her ability to force blue matches is weakened.

Additionally the ultimate counts your opponent's turn as one of each of the turns where she gets big mana. So as is, where I'm getting "four" turns, it really means the turn where I activated the ability and my following turn, then it drops off.

Mburn7

wereotter said:

Mburn7 said:

Throwing my 2 cents in to the nerf conversation:

I don't think Tammiyo needs a nerf, but tinykitty she is stupid strong.

My second take of a deck with her (feat. 2 mp, 2 rares, and 6 common/uncommons) is almost guaranteed to win before turn 4, with the only way to stop it being trash draws.
Is that nerf-worthy in today's game?  I don't think so.  
Would it have been nerf-worthy in Innistrad when she should have come out?  Absolutely.

Additionally the ultimate counts your opponent's turn as one of each of the turns where she gets big mana. So as is, where I'm getting "four" turns, it really means the turn where I activated the ability and my following turn, then it drops off.

Yeah it's not very clearly worded.
That being said, if you can't win after back-to-back activations of that ultimate you probably need to tweak your deck a bit.

wereotter

Mburn7 said:

wereotter said:

Mburn7 said:

Throwing my 2 cents in to the nerf conversation:

I don't think Tammiyo needs a nerf, but tinykitty she is stupid strong.

My second take of a deck with her (feat. 2 mp, 2 rares, and 6 common/uncommons) is almost guaranteed to win before turn 4, with the only way to stop it being trash draws.
Is that nerf-worthy in today's game?  I don't think so.  
Would it have been nerf-worthy in Innistrad when she should have come out?  Absolutely.

Additionally the ultimate counts your opponent's turn as one of each of the turns where she gets big mana. So as is, where I'm getting "four" turns, it really means the turn where I activated the ability and my following turn, then it drops off.

Yeah it's not very clearly worded.
That being said, if you can't win after back-to-back activations of that ultimate you probably need to tweak your deck a bit.

This is true, but at 21 loyalty to activate, it's by not means a guarantee that you'll hit that ultimate against an especially aggressive deck. It's been down to the wire more than once against aggressive Koth decks or Elspeth decks that suck up all the white matches.

I would say based off what I've seen, if we're basing this off ultimates, than Ugin is just as much an offender as Tamiyo if not more since he get the cards and the mana for those cards regardless of what the board state looks like, while if there aren't on-color matches for Tamiyo once you get to 21 loyalty, then her ability isn't worth activating.

rafalele

wereotter said:

Mburn7 said:

wereotter said:

Mburn7 said:

Throwing my 2 cents in to the nerf conversation:

I don't think Tammiyo needs a nerf, but tinykitty she is stupid strong.

My second take of a deck with her (feat. 2 mp, 2 rares, and 6 common/uncommons) is almost guaranteed to win before turn 4, with the only way to stop it being trash draws.
Is that nerf-worthy in today's game?  I don't think so.  
Would it have been nerf-worthy in Innistrad when she should have come out?  Absolutely.

Additionally the ultimate counts your opponent's turn as one of each of the turns where she gets big mana. So as is, where I'm getting "four" turns, it really means the turn where I activated the ability and my following turn, then it drops off.

Yeah it's not very clearly worded.
That being said, if you can't win after back-to-back activations of that ultimate you probably need to tweak your deck a bit.

This is true, but at 21 loyalty to activate, it's by not means a guarantee that you'll hit that ultimate against an especially aggressive deck. It's been down to the wire more than once against aggressive Koth decks or Elspeth decks that suck up all the white matches.

I would say based off what I've seen, if we're basing this off ultimates, than Ugin is just as much an offender as Tamiyo if not more since he get the cards and the mana for those cards regardless of what the board state looks like, while if there aren't on-color matches for Tamiyo once you get to 21 loyalty, then her ability isn't worth activating.

You are right, Ugin has surprised me. Ver solid Planeswalker.

Tamiyo is much better in legacy than in standard. 

Theros

I've been playing extensively with tamiyo and played Greg using her in both format. She's no S tier and not deserving the panic.
Tamiyo is actually balanced and prop to octagon for doing a good job.
Her reduced stats keep her in check in early rounds compared  to other blue/green walkers regardless of gems changers, card access or format. As a reminder, low stats and total stats are different;Higher total stats are not necessary better depending on spread. Sarkan the mad, tamiyo and Ajani GW have same total stats  but  two of them are mediocre compared to other PW with a total stat of 6 or even 5. So total stats cannot be used as an argument here.

Let break her down compared to other walkers to make sense:
VS Brokhan. The recent buff to Brokhan's 1st ability is significant. This makes him more aggressive and faster than tamiyo especially in early rounds. The boost in mana bonus yields to more cards output and faster loyalty gain depending in deck. No matter what format, brokhan is always superior to tamiyo; he can finish games before tamiyo gets to build her ultimate. Brokhan 1st compensates for bad draws.
Other walkers like kiora, nissa 3/4 and hualty green can outrace tamiyo in both format. True Tamiyo is strong in legacy but still not the best in that format.
Vs Nahiri. With a good mana bonus and good access to better spells such as huf, Nahiri is faster at finishing games than tamiyo in legacy. Her ultmate cost 15 only and usually game ending. In standard tamiyo has an edge however.

Vs Koth. same total stats with tamiyo but can get more aggressive. If QB was around, koth and nahiri would be better candidates.
These were some few examples.
Just because her ultimate looks unusual does not make her OP or nerf candidate. What we should instead is encourage the balancing other weak PWs which is long overdue.