MPQ Sneak Peek: June 2019 Edition *Updated (6/24/19)

Freelancer

At least Magik was in tokens for a while before she showed up in Shield Training. Ronin only went in at the start of this season...

WEBGAS

At this point, Ronin being E4 for Shield Training is not an Oversight like Magik was, but is really INTENDED.
That speaks volume about the consideration d3 has for the playerbase.
Furthermore they took back supports and increase costumes  what kind of weeds are they smoking there? 
The result is really sad : Each passing day I feel more the need to give up for good 

JHawkInc

JFisch said:

StevO-J said:

Yeah, so Ronin is essential for the next Shield Training..? There was a message back when Magik was required that it was an 'oversight' that a character that was only in rewards once before being featured in ST. Any questions on this subject when it happened again when 4* Thanos was essential were pretty much ignored or 'overlooked', but now this makes 3 in a row.

Well, about that...

I expected Sabertooth to be the E4 for this one. When Magik popped up in placement I thought maybe we'd dodged a bullet. But nope.

It seems we had a fairly steady cadence of these things falling on more mature 4s up until the point where the normal rotation was broken for an extra-long string of vintage 4s. Since then, we're stuck on a more, shall we say, aggressive setup.

Shenanigans.

This has been an issue for months, and the ONLY official response we've had is that Magik being required in Shield Training prior to being available in two event's rewards was an oversight.

This has been an issue for MONTHS, and at no time has anyone done the due diligence to come here and address it. And any sane person who doesn't know about how the devs hang around on Discord would assume that the official response on the official forums is real, and the post on Discord by an unverified user is not. 

You want to apologize for the confusion, come here and address complaints and stop actively contributing to the confusion.

It's insulting to slink around on other platforms instead of coming to the official forums, and pretend to apologize while doing absolutely nothing to indicate that you actually mean it.

If you want to require newer characters in Shield Training to put pressure on players and possibly reduce the number of resources given out by Shield Training, be brave enough to just say that's what you're doing and that's how it's going to go. Facing the fact that player desire and developer action isn't going to line up in this case would probably be better for everyone than continuing the current course where all appearances suggest the developers are too cowardly to talk to the players at all.

Have some self respect and address this.

bluewolf

OJSP said:

Funny sense of humour.. getting a new character is an Infinite Pursuit..

The game itself is an Infinity Pursuit. 

mind blown 

DAZ0273

Well the good news is that as I don't have Ronin at 209 I get to save iso by not bothering to move Kingpin up there and he should therefore be done as a required character for a good while so I can safely return to ignoring him.

JFisch

JHawkInc said:

Have some self respect and address this.

I don't disagree with you, but to be fair, direct communication with the player base is a D3 responsibility, and more specifically a Brigby responsibility. The disconnect between Brigby's messaging and reality was brought up between releases specifically to give them the opportunity to arm him with the correct messaging. He was out for E3 and this was the barest-bones of updates. I wouldn't hold my breath, but I'd save the torches and pitchforks until after and opportunity for an official message clarification has passed.

The reality is the game is run by the rotation spreadsheet. There is no one in a role that has quality of life oversight to say, "Players have always complained about brand new characters in Shield Training. That's going to happen consistently unless I make this rotation tweak right now." Whatever force controls the rotation does it independent of the one that controls the release schedule.

Once you realize the game is on auto-pilot, you stop attributing occurrences like this to greed, malice, or stupidity and apathy washes over you.

HoundofShadow

There are many angles to consider.

1) I heard that the devs is anti-hoarding. So, this could be one of their anti-hoarding strategies.

They put in two older characters and a newer one. So, the players have to make a choice whether they want to cover the newer one in order to get the cover for the newest character. If they don't, they miss out on up to 4 nodes, assuming they have the older ones at 209.

2) Another angle to look at this is this is a give-and-take scenario. The devs put in two older characters, where most vets would have them at 209 by now. However, most players have to break their hoards if they really want to get that latest 4* cover.
Sometimes, the devs will throw in all 3 older characters so that the players will be happy.

For me, I could BH Ronin and open my LTs to get him to 10. Or I could just ignore the last 4 nodes and move on.

DAZ0273

I think all of those above could be legitimate reasons but I am far more convinced that what @JFisch says is 100% more likely.

Punter1

Well my 1/2/8 Ronin isn't excited for the purple cover in prog... even with BH it can be hard to get a lvl 209 char in the time they expect.

bluewolf

The devs know that the number of 4's in the game forces players to make hard choices in terms of who to cover, where to use iso, etc.  As of next Thursday you'll need 1,053 covers to get 13 for each non-limited 4.  810 to get everyone to 10 covers.  At 1% odds thats..... well, 810 Legendary pulls perfectly divided amongst all 4s in the game.

Making older characters - many of whom are not doing much for your roster and veeerrryyy rarely essential for PVE (about once every year to 18 months) essential for ST is on the one hand not bad for a lot of vets (if by vets you specifically mean the top end players who have been going hard for years).  On the other hand, it's a big incentive for newer people to chase at least the first 10 covers for a lot of characters given that the ST is fairly unpredictable.

It's always worth remembering that every choice or change the game developers make impacts a huge range of rosters, and sometimes very differently.

And while it seems like the choice was driven by the schedule to run Ronin this time, the fact is that Magik is a reward now, and she is not a Latest 3 (she's like a Latest 5), so doesn't fit the previous pattern of Latest 3 then 2 Vintage.  And then they went to Ronin.  Someone made some choices here that led to this situation.

DAZ0273

bluewolf said:

The devs know that the number of 4's in the game forces players to make hard choices in terms of who to cover, where to use iso, etc.  As of next Thursday you'll need 1,053 covers to get 13 for each non-limited 4.  810 to get everyone to 10 covers.  At 1% odds thats..... well, 810 Legendary pulls perfectly divided amongst all 4s in the game.

Making older characters - many of whom are not doing much for your roster and veeerrryyy rarely essential for PVE (about once every year to 18 months) essential for ST is on the one hand not bad for a lot of vets (if by vets you specifically mean the top end players who have been going hard for years).  On the other hand, it's a big incentive for newer people to chase at least the first 10 covers for a lot of characters given that the ST is fairly unpredictable.

It's always worth remembering that every choice or change the game developers make impacts a huge range of rosters, and sometimes very differently.

And while it seems like the choice was driven by the schedule to run Ronin this time, the fact is that Magik is a reward now, and she is not a Latest 3 (she's like a Latest 5), so doesn't fit the previous pattern of Latest 3 then 2 Vintage.  And then they went to Ronin.  Someone made some choices here that led to this situation.

Patterns mean nothing at this point. If there are no guaranteed rules for Shield Training and the Devs can shift focus as they see fit why should there be for anything else in the game?

NotBAMF

What a super fun never-ending cycle!

I didn't have enough covers on the brand new character required for Ronin's training (was it Magik?), so I didn't get an extra Ronin cover when he came out.

Now Ronin is still brand new, and partially since I got off to a bad start on the last Training, I don't have nearly enough covers for him to get an extra cover for this week's new character.

So I'll be off to a bad start on this new character, and when whoever it is gets to be in the next Shield Training in about 8 minutes from now, I won't have enough covers for them to earn a cover on the NEXT new character!

And so it goes, on and on forever, I guess. What fun!

jp1

Usually I don’t agree with the Shield Training complaints...however, the tactics are clearly pointed at heavy spending to keep up with the curve. I understand the need to turn a profit but lately it seems like an autopilot lazy road is the only way they care about.

I can’t even focus my resources on characters I want to use...and I spend more than I should (probably way above average) on the game.It is starting to tax my patience for sure, especially when they keep taking stuff away and not giving anything new.

Therealsmkspy

ST already targeted the "10%" that have built up their rosters through years of play, now it has change to target the 1% that burns money on the game.

I'm just too apathetic after four years of slog to get riled up over what the game keeps devolving into...plain ole autopilot siphoning what cash they can from us while it lasts as others have said. 

ammenell

another ignored shield training? 
sadly nothing new

The rockett

WOOOOO. Here we go again. 

@Demiurge_Anthony
@Brigby
@LakeStone
@IceIX
@anybody at Demi it D3 that cares to answer this question that nobody has yet on this forum 

What is the normal operating procedure for Shield Training?

Was the Magik, as we were told a mistake, ST the move to make this happen so quick and not a mistake? 

Why is this changed pushed like it is after the negative feedback you have received here and Discord? 

Why cannot the player gets a straight answer from somebody?  

If you cannot answer this, who can we ask?  

Will anybody at D3 or Demi answer these questions?

Are you still thinking about how to do answer these questions from the frustrated player base?  

Doragon

If the forums are full of the veterans complaining, but their sales figure for their in-game products have not gone down, I don't think the developers will make any major changes because it still works. They're comfortable. I'm guessing Brigby and IceIX are their PR guys, so it's not like they have much influence over what the developers have planned.

In the end, we have to vote with our wallets and stop buying that much for them to start to lower prices and care for the community more - which let's face it, if they start selling 18 4* covers + 6,000HP for $50 (Young Avengers bundle), sales are going to go through the roof.

HoundofShadow

Is it a requirement or compulsory for the devs to ensure that most vet players (however you define it) are able to complete all 12 middle nodes without them monetising from those group of players?

It's something like "They can monetize from other groups of players, but don't ever touch us, or else we will be pissed off."

bluewolf

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/78206/ronin-magik-and-the-last-14-shield-training-essentials/p1

From June 2018 until May 2019 (Ronin's release) the newest essential had been offered 3 or more times as a PVE reward.

Including Ronin, the last 3 new 4* releases have required someone that has only been offered twice (release event plus PVE prior to/during ST).

The devs set expectations and precedent through their actions that players use to make assumptions.  Doing so makes us prone to disappointment when no rule has been stated, and of course rules can be changed at a whim anyway.  No, there is no obligation to make things "easy" especially in terms of getting a "free cover" from ST.

However.

There is a relationship between players and developers. It is partly based on trust and a perception of fairness.  This recent shift feels unfair to a lot of players.

Once players feel that things are shifting in an unfair direction, they have every right to make decisions regarding engagement, spending, etc based on that perception.

DAZ0273

@Bluewolf is correct.

Of course, the Dev’s are free to attempt to chase dollars in any way they see fit but it is normally a bad strategy to aggressively change course on a previously established pattern without explanation/feedback to an established customer base. This doesn’t just apply to free to play internet based games, it applies to all walks of life. There has been either a miscommunication on the forums or a walk back. Until it is clarified which it is, customers are going to lose trust and those already looking for reasons to criticise are rubbing their hands with glee (Yeah – I think we can all agree that there are people watching developments on this board that are actively pleased when the Dev’s screw something up).

@HoundofShadow – so if the Devs are free to aggressively monetise a targeted customer base, that customer base are free to cry foul about it. Fair is fair - why do only the Devs get to have it their way in your scenario? Not me personally, I’m used not to being able to complete these things but for those who could before and now can’t, this forum is their feedback and they are seeking an answer it seems.