Vaulting

Twomp_thaDJTwomp_thaDJ Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
in MPQ General Discussion
can someone please tell me why vaulting was a bad thing? I only ask because it seems like we went from being able to cover 12 at a time to now struggling to cover them all. I could be wrong but I remember plenty of people complaining about vaulting just want to know what they thought was wrong with it.
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  • TherealsmkspyTherealsmkspy Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    edited May 2019
    Because we were getting too many rewards and covering characters faster. Making game play fun and rewarding, while also encouraging new people to get invested in the game itself. 

    The devs think they are/have been too generous. It's like they think we are still at year 2 and don't have over a hundred characters between 4/5 tier. 
  • Twomp_thaDJTwomp_thaDJ Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
    edited May 2019
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    Actually I think there were a lot of complaints of an inability to cover/champ the non-vaulted toons.
    Ok.. so if that was the complaint how would taking the 12 latest out help cover the older ones.. I just don’t remember the full argument but I can’t see how anybody was hoping for what we have now which makes it very hard to cover anyone now
  • NotBAMFNotBAMF Posts: 408 Mover and Shaker

    The best answer is somewhere between Vaulting and what we have now. Vaulting stunk because it was super hard to get older characters. The current process stinks because it's hard to hard to get anyone specific.


  • BoyWonder1914BoyWonder1914 Posts: 822 Critical Contributor
    The problem was that you could ONLY pull those latest 12 characters. So you had literally no other way to get the other vintage characters except through an event vault, or placement/progression (I don't recall if Bonus Heroes was a thing at the time). If you did happen to already have the characters champed, it pretty much put a dead stop to your champ levels on that character. It was great to have a reliable way to cover newer characters, but we didn't feel it needed to come at the cost of covering older characters. That's why the increased odds on newer characters was such a beautiful compromise. I wasn't heavy into PVP at the time, but I'm sure it probably wasn't fun either to be running into Lv. 350+ Medusas and Captain Marvels because there weren't too many other people to pull. 
  • The rockettThe rockett Posts: 1,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vaulting was absolutely the best option for dilution that we have had presented to us.  Is it the best way to handle it, not sure because we haven’t seen anything else yet.  If they would have came up with a token or a way to get Vintage 4*, then this would have been the best solution.  

    It seemed as @Therealsmkspy has said, they did not like us getting 370s so quick and getting all of these rewards.  Man that was a great time to get high levels on your 4*. Now it is mind numbing with no end in sight. 
  • Twomp_thaDJTwomp_thaDJ Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
    But if I recall there was the latest store for 25 cp which you could get the three latest 5* and twelve latest 4* and still pull the vintage ones out of the classic 20 cp store? Or am I blending them into what we have now?
  • tiomonotiomono Posts: 1,599 Chairperson of the Boards
    It was great covering 12 pretty fast but not great seeing the other 2/3 of the 4* tier getting nothing. That was it for me.

    It's why I pull classics instead of latest legends now. 5* dillution is rough, but zero chance of pulling a classic 5 in latests is still zero chance. Even a tiny shot at all the classics is better than zero shot in my mind.
  • pheregaspheregas Posts: 1,661 Chairperson of the Boards
    If they'd just reinstate vaulting with recent 10 plus vintage 10, with the vintage 10 rotating every season, I think that would go a long way towards combating dilution.  Add in BH and people could make real progress.  And if you don't care about a certain set of vintage 10, hoard for that season.
  • pheregaspheregas Posts: 1,661 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    ...or if they just let you pick your own custom vault.
    I think we all know that BH is as close to that as we'll ever come.  :/ 
  • BoyWonder1914BoyWonder1914 Posts: 822 Critical Contributor
    I agree, if they can come up with special stores/vaults for 5-star releases, I don't see why they can't use these same stores to offer select subset of 4s at an increased rate. They demonstrate the ability to do this with their "Fan Favorite" stores. 
  • PhumadePhumade Posts: 1,995 Chairperson of the Boards
    Twomp_thaDJ said:
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    Actually I think there were a lot of complaints of an inability to cover/champ the non-vaulted toons.
    Ok.. so if that was the complaint how would taking the 12 latest out help cover the older ones.. I just don’t remember the full argument but I can’t see how anybody was hoping for what we have now which makes it very hard to cover anyone now
    Who said their argument made any sense?  But at the end of the day, that’s what the forum people asked for.   It’s sad because it was the only realistic way to build up your4* to be viable against baby5* champs.
  • tiomonotiomono Posts: 1,599 Chairperson of the Boards
    Twomp_thaDJ said:
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    Actually I think there were a lot of complaints of an inability to cover/champ the non-vaulted toons.
    Ok.. so if that was the complaint how would taking the 12 latest out help cover the older ones.. I just don’t remember the full argument but I can’t see how anybody was hoping for what we have now which makes it very hard to cover anyone now
    Vaulting is not the same as having all characters available while the most recent 12 have increased odds. Vaulting literally completely locked out characters which was lousy. Similar to how the support store is right now.

    I'm pretty sure nearly every player liked having all characters available with 12 latest having higher odds. 
  • NeuromancerNeuromancer Posts: 200 Tile Toppler
    edited May 2019
    For a quick fix, they should do what they did with the 5*s. LL tokens should carry the latest twelve 4*s, and CLs should be everyone else. Want to chase the old guys? Spend the CP.

    Edit: I do feel a little dirty because the time I began my 4* transition is when vaulting took place. It helped me cover my first 4*s (that weren't Wolverine and Invisible Woman, which I had before my year break), Peggy, Carol Danvers, and Medusa (a potent team to be sure), it then disappeared right at the time I had all the latest 4*s under control, and I wanted to pursue older 4*s such as Iceman. I benefited from both the arrival and the removal of vaulting. Now I'm in the same boat with everyone else, those latest heroes are a chore to cover.
  • SpudgutterSpudgutter Posts: 734 Critical Contributor
    Twomp_thaDJ said:
    can someone please tell me why vaulting was a bad thing? I only ask because it seems like we went from being able to cover 12 at a time to now struggling to cover them all. I could be wrong but I remember plenty of people complaining about vaulting just want to know what they thought was wrong with it.
    It had it's plusses and minuses.  Which side you came down on was probably heavily dependent on where you were in game, and what your goals are\were.

    Look at my post history from that time, and you will see plenty of people with problems and arguments against vaulting.  I won't say there were all bad, I just didn't really agree with them.  The good outweighed the bad, imo. 
  • SpudgutterSpudgutter Posts: 734 Critical Contributor
    tiomono said:
    Twomp_thaDJ said:
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    Actually I think there were a lot of complaints of an inability to cover/champ the non-vaulted toons.
    Ok.. so if that was the complaint how would taking the 12 latest out help cover the older ones.. I just don’t remember the full argument but I can’t see how anybody was hoping for what we have now which makes it very hard to cover anyone now
    Vaulting is not the same as having all characters available while the most recent 12 have increased odds. Vaulting literally completely locked out characters which was lousy. Similar to how the support store is right now.

    I'm pretty sure nearly every player liked having all characters available with 12 latest having higher odds. 
    Yeah, it was an ok compromise, and agree, that most liked it.  I can't remember why they stopped it.  
  • n25phillyn25philly Posts: 426 Mover and Shaker
    Twomp_thaDJ said:
    can someone please tell me why vaulting was a bad thing? I only ask because it seems like we went from being able to cover 12 at a time to now struggling to cover them all. I could be wrong but I remember plenty of people complaining about vaulting just want to know what they thought was wrong with it.
    Simple, because having to count on random bonus heroes to cover characters was incredible stupid.  Also in a game where people want to play their favorite characters to tell them no because they decided they should be able to because good ideas are apparently against company policy is an incredibly stupid idea.

    Of course they came up with a good idea with the hybrid 50% new/50% classic so thankfully they fixed that. *rolls eyes*
  • Sm0keyJ0eSm0keyJ0e Posts: 729 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2019
    Dug up this little gem:
    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/64068/answers-to-the-8-questions-about-vaulting-5-2-17

    Dev comment: "We think it’s very important to note that just ending vaulting is not a full solution; doing so will restore the pack dilution problem outlined in #1 above which threatens the long-term health of the game."
  • TherealsmkspyTherealsmkspy Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    edited May 2019
    I remember a lot of anti-vaulters, myself included, changed their tone once we started getting those high level 4s and the deluge of rewards that came with them.

    It was also one of the best runs of 4s that the devs produced.

    C4rol
    Mordo
    Coulson
    Medusa
    C4ge
    Grocket
    Gamora
    Riri

    To name several. It was a worthwhile trade-off as they all made vaulted 4s pretty obsolete.

    Though I did like the post-vaulting change as it allowed me to finish those older fours. It was good compromise, but again, it was very reward heavy, which the devs have been running away from in the two years. 
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