Rate of Release of 5 Star Feeder Discussion

GrimSkald

I would like to have an honest-to-goodness discussion on the rate of release of 5 Star Feeders.  We have a lot of strong opinions on this matter, and I really want to keep this civil.  It seems that a fair bit of information was put out there, some of it seems to have been inaccurate or changed over time.

I made up a spreadsheet with data on 5 Star releases, the first tab has information on the feeder schedule and some other useful info.  If you want to look at it, I shared it here.

So it seems clear that they've gone through several concepts of how often to set a 4* so that they "feed" a 5*.  Initially it was about once a month, they then gave us a bunch in close succession, then they slowed waaaay down.  In a recent interview, some of the developers stated that they were too generous for a while, but they think that they swung too far the other way.  It seems that now they want to release feeders to mark special events.

What I want to talk about is what we think is ideal rate of release on these feeders.  Ranting and raving won't make any difference whatsoever - but a civil discussion where we outlined our point of view may make have an impact.  We know the forums are read by a number of the devs.  So talk about what you think is the right rate, and in particular you should say why.

Here's my opinion - releasing 4 -> 5* feeders creates anticipation and interest, which is an argument against doing them all at once.  It seems clear that they definitely don't want to do this.  However, releasing them in an irregular fashion actually detracts from that interest, I think.  If they release, say, one every six weeks, then every six weeks there will be an upsurge of interest in which one they will release this time.

In my opinion, they should probably mirror the release schedule of 5*s - maybe when the new 5* enters tokens, maybe two weeks after that.  They can occasionally release extra ones, but I think they want to leave around 10% of the 5*s without feeders so there will be some anticipation in finding out who will be next.  Right now we're under that, I do think they should catch up to some extent - the feeders really help the transition to the 5* level and having a large number without feeders hurts the game.

ThaRoadWarrior

The 5* transition is incredibly painful, particularly with just 1 champed 5* who is outside the meta. Since i switched off of spending in Classic to only into Latest (when Kingpin came out), I was able to get Cable to 10 covers, Kingpin to 11, and now I have Doom at 12. I would love it if any of those three characters got a feeder. It's very rough to get a 5* to aaaaaalmost there, and then know that you may never get another one. It's marginally less painful when they DO have a feeder, but your build is front loaded in such a way that even though you only need say 2 more covers on your 5*, you still need to take your feeder all the way to 360 because they're both for the bottom color. (for instance my 5/4/1 okoye)

For me, I would love it if new release 5*s would get a feeder when they drop into classic. even if it isn't right away - in fact I think it would be pretty fair if the 4* following the 5* who knocked them out was just a feeder for the previous 5 from the get-go. That way everybody is starting from the same place on levels. I would reserve the catch-up feeders for special events. 

The rockett

@GrimSkald I agree 100% with what you are saying.   I believe that the End Game event and now with Dark  Phoenix coming out this would have been a good way to “catch up”. While I do like the fact that we did have some 5* feeders from the start of when they were released. This is a great benefit to the player base due to the 5E node for pve.  We have all heard horror stories of ally mates going 0/150 for whatever that 5E is and cannot participate in this event when they are on a high level team.  

I think that schedule you have laid out, and others have said about this too, is the perfect way to do this.  We know that they handle the  new characters in the 3/4* land is before the new season starts. They could even do it that way, but something more than what we got now.  

It seems like they want to hold onto this for as long as possible.  I don’t understand why because it just makes us get more upset or worse apathetic to the game as a whole.     

DyingLegend

I feel the transition into 5 star land feels more like a punishment rather than how it should feel, which is more rewarding as your roster grows stronger. I think every 5 star should have a feeder, but I also think every 4 should as well.

Maybe introduce a system when you champion a 3, you can pick between two 4 star options or allow you to reset your 3 star for an ISO fee and after 1 reset it unlocks a different 4 star. Example, 3 star black panther, first go gives you 4 star black panther, Second reset gives you Shuri.

I'm also a firm believer that after a certain roster strength, you should no longer pull 2 stars and should earn 3s and 4s way more often. I'm more likely to spend money of I feel like it will help me progress, right now everything is too diluted and buying a 40 pack could Net mostly 2s, so no thank you. I see no value in that. 

Yasuru

If they hold the schedule, a new 5* comes out every 6 weeks.  The standard has been 2 weeks after the character's special vault closes, they are added to latest.  What I would like to see, (which I don't think would hurt their sales) is this:

1 - All classics get their feeder
2 - 3 weeks after a 5* is added to classics, they get a feeder.  This breaks the 6 week cycle in half and gives us something to get excited about between 5* releases.

MrBowers

Hopefully strange will get that feeder by the end of the avengers celebration and with the release of dark Phoenix maybe one or two from either gambit/cable/kitty hopefully will get theirs 

Neuromancer

I vote 4* Deadpool for Cable. Mordo for  5* Strange, and Bishop for Kitty. They need to make a 4* Mister Sinister for 5* Gambit, IMO. 

pfarewell

       I like they idea proposed for a 5* feeder schedule. However, how many 4* need feeders? There are not enough 3* to feed them. Is that one of those things that will never be addressed? It would be nice for for 4* that feed 5* have someone feed them. Gamora should feed Gamora for example. 

Vhailorx

I am still stunned that they think the rate of 1 feeder a month was too much.  That means that at most 6 covers a month (for those with level 360 4* champs, which is a trivial small population, who probably don't need the covers anyway) is beyond the pale for them in terms of rewards.

I think Demi's perception that this modest total is too much was the main problem. 

Once again see the irresolveable tension between serving the hard core whales and the more casual players.

tiomono

I feel a reasonable rate would be every time a character hits classic tokens it gets a feeder. 

I'm not sure if numbers I gave on feeder averages since they were released is what you are referencing as inaccurate or changed over time. People keep saying it was one a month. But that was not consistent. So I divided the number of days since feeders started up till captain marvel got hers, by how many feeders we had in total. I came up with one feeder every 22 days. Which is roughly 2 feeders for every new 5* release. If new releases are one every 6 weeks. I'm not sure if any calendar currently in use has months that are 22 days long. But on my calendar 22 days is one week shy of a month. 

I'm not trying to shout anybody down. I just feel we often mischaracterize the rate of one a month. When it was so seldom actually one a month. It on average was 25% faster than that, which is not an insignificant amount.

Vhailorx

tiomono said:

I feel a reasonable rate would be every time a character hits classic tokens it gets a feeder. 

I'm not sure if numbers I gave on feeder averages since they were released is what you are referencing as inaccurate or changed over time. People keep saying it was one a month. But that was not consistent. So I divided the number of days since feeders started up till captain marvel got hers, by how many feeders we had in total. I came up with one feeder every 22 days. Which is roughly 2 feeders for every new 5* release. If new releases are one every 6 weeks. I'm not sure if any calendar currently in use has months that are 22 days long. But on my calendar 22 days is one week shy of a month. 

I'm not trying to shout anybody down. I just feel we often mischaracterize the rate of one a month. When it was so seldom actually one a month. It on average was 25% faster than that, which is not an insignificant amount.

That's fine grim, but even at 1 feeder per 22 days, we are still talking about an extra 7.5x 5* covers per month for those that have already collected 90 champ levels for the feeder.  So the true rate of cover flow is much much lower.  And yet Demi still perceived that as too generous (which really means that it had a perceivable negative effect on spending). 

I think it says something bad about the game that giving away something like ~one quarter of a single character at the highest tier of play (available only to vets very deep rosters and lots of $/time invested) every month totally wrecks the economy.

tiomono

Vhailorx said:

tiomono said:

I feel a reasonable rate would be every time a character hits classic tokens it gets a feeder. 

I'm not sure if numbers I gave on feeder averages since they were released is what you are referencing as inaccurate or changed over time. People keep saying it was one a month. But that was not consistent. So I divided the number of days since feeders started up till captain marvel got hers, by how many feeders we had in total. I came up with one feeder every 22 days. Which is roughly 2 feeders for every new 5* release. If new releases are one every 6 weeks. I'm not sure if any calendar currently in use has months that are 22 days long. But on my calendar 22 days is one week shy of a month. 

I'm not trying to shout anybody down. I just feel we often mischaracterize the rate of one a month. When it was so seldom actually one a month. It on average was 25% faster than that, which is not an insignificant amount.

That's fine grim, but even at 1 feeder per 22 days, we are still talking about an extra 7.5x 5* covers per month for those that have already collected 90 champ levels for the feeder.  So the true rate of cover flow is much much lower.  And yet Demi still perceived that as too generous (which really means that it had a perceivable negative effect on spending). 

I think it says something bad about the game that giving away something like ~one quarter of a single character at the highest tier of play (available only to vets very deep rosters and lots of $/time invested) every month totally wrecks the economy.

I admit I have not thought about the speed people get the the champ levels that get feeders. That's an interesting topic as well. I was solely looking at the discussion as to whether or not a 5* had a feeder.

Max champing a 4* (not a small task) will get you almost halfway done with fully covering a 5. Is this fast, good, bad? That might be a good discussion for another thread. 

I pull classics so my mind is kinda locked into being ok with a very long game. I know that's not for everybody.

If only we could have some kind of input on decisions made from someone th that helps make them. Then maybe we could figure out what would feel fair or right in players minds while still allowing the devs to make profits and keep the lights on.

ThaRoadWarrior

I've been trying to max-champ my way to a completed Jessica Jones via Chavez since January 25th. Between organic pulls and bonus heroes, I've gone from 285 -> 314 in those 114 days. I'm earning .25 America Chavez covers per day, which means I'm 184 days out from having a completed Jessica Jones. It doesn't feel to me like that's a too-fast timetable (in fact quite the opposite) to get 47% of a 5*, especially considering how far behind I've fallen on covering new 4* releases as a result of this choice.

bluewolf

As much as the slowdown in feeders annoys me and everyone else, I can see why the devs wanted to do it. Getting to the point of everyone fed or double feeders or whatever would reduce the pressure a lot in terms of Latests going to Classics, and finishing off someone you are interested in via pulls. It would make hoarding easier if you knew you were going to get the last few covers in a couple weeks from a feeder instead of being worried that you would have a hard time getting covers for someone who would is in Classics.

I guess a compromise would be to catch up more (maybe 3-5 unfed Classics) then always have a feeder when someone goes to Classics. (Not the newest person, but someone unfed.). A dependable rate would be nice to have, and better than a vague “use feeders to make events special” which I just find frustrating.

Warbringa

Neuromancer said:

I vote 4* Deadpool for Cable. Mordo for  5* Strange, and Bishop for Kitty. They need to make a 4* Mister Sinister for 5* Gambit, IMO. 

4* Rogue is the obvious choice for 5* Gambit imo.

JHawkInc

bluewolf said:

Getting to the point of everyone fed or double feeders or whatever would reduce the pressure a lot in terms of Latests going to Classics, and finishing off someone you are interested in via pulls.

(bolded for emphasis)

I think that's a problem as well. It takes 113 covers to max champ a 5* character, but we all consider them "finished" when we get the assortment of 13 needed to Champ. Getting into the 5* tier is more or less the endgame, and anything beyond that is gravy. If we had game content (SCL 10? a Gauntlet that scales very high by the end?) that made max or high level 5* champs more desirable, then giving out a couple 5-star covers here and there wouldn't be as bad.

In general I agree that feeders should be more regular. I like the idea of a character getting one a set time after leaving Latest, not immediately so you don't step on Latest tokens in general (if you knew a feeder was coming, you might stop chasing a character in Latest, and keeping "the chase" intact is good to encourage spending to keep the game alive, so like, maybe a character enters Classics, and then gets a feeder when the next 5* enters Classics, or maybe the one after that, so there's a gap? helps keep Latest tokens a priority because the alternative is a longer wait). And I like the idea of getting on with giving the remaining Classics a feeder. I don't mind the idea of "celebration means feeder", but I think it's a better plan for a SECOND feeder, once the groundwork of first feeders is complete.

Which circles back to my initial point. Having a second or even third feeder wouldn't be as big of a deal if we had more reason to chase the full 113 covers, the goal being high level 5's, and not just getting them champed.

wymtime

I have 26 championed 5* and I would just prefer they catch up and create 5* feeders for the 5* missing.  There is no reason not too as there are double the abound of 4* as 5*.  For new 5* I think either 6 weeks after they are released or when they go to classics is fine.  I would prefer when they are released , but I know they don’t like doing that because hoarders will just skip a 5* without pulling their LT. 

pheregas

As 5* BH is not reliable, common, nor even a guaranteed color, 5* feeders are probably the only way to fill out 5* rosters, especially those trying to catch up.  

I think you can either chase 5s in classics or in latests, but not in both.  It may cost more CP, but I made the decision  a long time ago to abandon any 5s that were not in latest because the dilution pool in classics was way too high and the BH payout way too low (I've only ever had 6 total 5* BH).

Regardless, even with saved covers and feeders, there will be some older 5s that I will never fully cover, but at the very least I'll have all the available powers I can actually use.

WEBGAS

In game pop up confirmed that starting from Friday may 24, Mordo will feed Strange. .....
Thank you

qandols

WEBGAS said:

In game pop up confirmed that starting from Friday may 24, Mordo will feed Strange. .....
Thank you

I second that wholeheartedly

GrimSkald

pheregas said:

As 5* BH is not reliable, common, nor even a guaranteed color, 5* feeders are probably the only way to fill out 5* rosters, especially those trying to catch up.  

I think you can either chase 5s in classics or in latests, but not in both.  It may cost more CP, but I made the decision  a long time ago to abandon any 5s that were not in latest because the dilution pool in classics was way too high and the BH payout way too low (I've only ever had 6 total 5* BH).

Regardless, even with saved covers and feeders, there will be some older 5s that I will never fully cover, but at the very least I'll have all the available powers I can actually use.

Yeah, I've pulled a total of 20 5* Bonus Heroes out of, apparently, 444 5*s.  So it looks like I'm down 2.2 off of what would be expected - well within normal but they're spaced out so far it can feel like they're never coming.  I mean, looking at my draws (I actually log Legendary draws,) I pulled my last 5* BH on 4/16, well over a month ago.  Prior to that, it had been 2/4.

I think BHs are a good way to round out your lower level older 5*s, but as you say, not reliable.  Feeders are much better.

Speaking for myself, I rarely draw classics - drawing latest is how you keep up on the most recent 5*s and I haven't really missed fully covering one in years.  Dipping in to special stores and classics has helped me round out my older 5*s, but the bulk of them were build on the backs of 4*s characters.

WEBGAS said:

In game pop up confirmed that starting from Friday may 24, Mordo will feed Strange. .....
Thank you

Yeah, that's actually pretty interesting - Mordo is pretty darn old (he'll be 831 days old when they set him,) so between Strange and Captain Marvel, it seems that they're no longer particularly concerned with distributing too many 5* covers anymore.  I mean, they could have chosen other 4*s as feeders who would have given a lot less - Wiccan and Nico come to mind (Wiccan even has some physical costume similarities,) but Mordo is thematically the best fit.  Heck, Wiccan was even completely hosed by the way they distributed 4* covers - he came into the game after the 50/50 Latest 4* pull but before they started leaning on the latest for PVE.  He's actually one of my lowest level 4*s that isn't brand spanking new.