"Lay Claim" acting different, or is it just me? [As Designed]

Tengu316

It's been a while since I ran "Lay Claim", so I threw it into a deck. I had three creatures fielded. Before, I swear Lay Claim would allow me to target an opponent's creature then choose which one of mine to replace and, if I decided not to replace, destroy the opponent's creature.

Today, it appears it won't even cast if I have three critters out.

Am I mis-remembering, or did this get changed somewhere along the line, or is this a new "feature"?

Thanks!

Mburn7

This is a new bug that appeared with any card or ability that takes control of an enemy creature.

Gilesclone

In Bolas’s Clutches is doing the same thing 

wereotter

I hope this is intentional... giving blue the ability to kill creatures, and in the case of some of the effects, creatures with hexproof, just by having a full board was one of those things that needed to be addressed considering how over-powered blue is currently.

Tengu316

It's not the killing I mind going away; it's the lack of the option to replace one of my own creatures. That's what is troubling. Jeez.

Thanks!

Unknown

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Laeuftbeidir

wereotter said:

I hope this is intentional... giving blue the ability to kill creatures, and in the case of some of the effects, creatures with hexproof, just by having a full board was one of those things that needed to be addressed considering how over-powered blue is currently.

starfall said:

"Steal" needs to be a keyword like "Cast" or "Summon" so they we know how it's supposed to work and when it's not working.

I take the two and double fries, please.

Brigby

*Moved to Bugs & Technical Issues section

Kinesia

In history early steal cards explicitly said "If you have 2 or less creatures...", Lay Claim cost more but behaved in a new way and let us replace things, or steal a new copy of something you already had one of, merge stacks.
We thought it was worth the extra cost.

After that though...

Tombstone

Hi everyone, I discussed with the team, and it was confirmed that this is intentional. This change was made to prevent cards with permanent control effects from being able to freely destroy an opponent's creature whenever the player has three creatures in play. 

//Edited - Corrected mistake. 

Mburn7

Tombstone said:

Hi everyone, I discussed with the team, and it was confirmed that this is intentional. This change was made to prevent cards with temporary control effects from being able to freely destroy an opponent's creature whenever the player has three creatures in play. 

@Tombstone Thanks for the clarification on the new rules.  Some quick follow up questions for the team.

1.  WHY WERE WE NOT INFORMED OF THIS UNTIL NOW.  This wasn't in any patch notes I can recall.

2.  What about when your opponent controls a creature that you already have out.  Shouldn't you be able to reinforce your creature?

3.  Lay Claim is NOT a "temporary control effect".  It is permanent.  Not sure if that changes the answer, but please make sure the team understands that in case it does.

4.  Can In Bolas' Clutches have a casting prompt then, since it is now useless if you already control 3 creatures?

Tremayne

This is depressing reading @Tombstone. Don’t get me wrong the change seems to be for the better in order to rein in blue’s super power.

The depressing part is the fact that changes are implemented without informing the players, a simple message in app would suffice at the very least.
Heck, you could also have made a blog post explaining which cards have been updated (I assume that this change also affects other cards) so the players are not supposed to investigate which cards are working differently and which are bugged.

@Tombstone - can you shed lights on which cards have been updated to reflect this change?

Tengu316

@Tombstone Thanks, but I could care less about the killing; we should STILL have the option of replacing an existing creature on the battlefield with the "stolen" creature or letting the spell fizzle. That only makes sense, right? Also, please address Mburn's list above cuz, right now, that's the same as my list!

Tremayne

In Bolas clutches do not steal a creature which is identical to an already stolen creature, if I have 3 creatures on the table.

is This also intentional?

Tombstone

@Mburn7

Apologies, I'd meant to type permanent, and I typed out temporary instead. I'll fix that. 

To clarify, cards with temporary control effects can still be used when you have three Creatures in play.  

Your second point regarding the ability to reinforce a creature when taking a creature that you already control seems like it would be a reasonable assumption. I'll see if I can discuss this with the team. 

I'll also suggest the cast prompt for In Bolas's Clutches. 

@Tremayne

As far as I am aware, this change applies to any cards with permanent control effects like Mass Manipulation, Connive, or Admiral Beckett Brass.


I'll see if I can suggest an official announcement regarding this change.  

Tengu316

So, from now on, you're not allowed to replace one of your creatures with a stolen creature. Is that correct? Because that makes zero sense to me, sorry.

Mburn7

Tombstone said:

@Mburn7

Apologies, I'd meant to type permanent, and I typed out temporary instead. I'll fix that. 

To clarify, cards with temporary control effects can still be used when you have three Creatures in play.  

Your second point regarding the ability to reinforce a creature when taking a creature that you already control seems like it would be a reasonable assumption. I'll see if I can discuss this with the team. 

I'll also suggest the cast prompt for In Bolas's Clutches. 

@Tremayne

As far as I am aware, this change applies to any cards with permanent control effects like Mass Manipulation, Connive, or Admiral Beckett Brass.


I'll see if I can suggest an official announcement regarding this change.  

Thanks for the quick response!  Hopefully we'll get something official soon.

Please also check in on @Tengu316 point about replacing creatures though.  That is probably a bug. 

Tremayne

@Tombstone - thank you for the reply.

IM_CARLOS

They should be simple nerfed lay claim and other stealing cards. Okay, they where a staple for long time. Too strong incombination with new blue mana gain.

But why no official announcement about that? That's the point!

We have to find it the hard way and some maybe in (big rewards) events with negative feeling. That's a shame! 

Kinesia

@Tombstone Since cards in the past were cost balanced based on different limitations (Look at Exert Influence vs Lay Claim) are they going to take that into account at all? Lay Claim costs a huge amount if it doesn't have an advantage over the cheaper steal card.

Laeuftbeidir

I like the change. But the total ignorance of changing a complete mechanic and not telling anyone is highly irritating. How are we supposed to understand how anything works i?