Neru and Quadruplicate

810Bourne
810Bourne Posts: 53 Match Maker
in MtGPQ General Discussion
This damn loop is a known issue  There is no other purpose with this loop except to troll players who encounter it, to make them quit  

This is ****. 

Why had this not been fixed  Why is this allowed 
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Comments

  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    It was fixed, when copies were made to not be able to cast the turn they are created.  This was undone in the recent update that gave us a timer, with the devs probably figuring that the timer would alleviate any issues caused by loopy copies.  

    The easy solution would be to either

    A.  Give Naru only the extra text "copies created by Naru Meha cannot be cast the turn they are created" or something to that effect

    B.  Implement the loop prevention system proposed BY THE PLAYERS ON THE FORUMS MONTHS AGO and have it cut turns short after a certain number of cards are played, which would cut short loops like Quasi-Naru and Blue Sun's Bird (names pending trademarks by me) without effecting non-loop strategies that just take a long time like Path of the March or anything involving Huatli Green.

    Of course since the devs have proven time and time again to not care at all about what us players think who knows what will happen (my money is on either nerfing all copies again or just reducing the LPS cutoff time).
  • octal9
    octal9 Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
    Mburn7 said:

    Quasi-Naru 
    Naruplicate.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2019
    octal9 said:
    Mburn7 said:

    Quasi-Naru 
    Naruplicate.
    Hmmm, that one does sound better.  Lets go with that then.

    I miss good combo deck names.  Hasn't been a really good one since Harness the Playground (well, there was one but I'll get in trouble for posting it here lol)

    I dare anyone to beat Blue Sun's Bird, though.
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  • spadpl
    spadpl Posts: 36 Just Dropped In
    LPS doesn't work as intended. During 90s Naru will copy herself many times, making creature (eg.) 200/200; if you don't have removal ready, you will lose a game in next turn.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    spadpl said:
    LPS doesn't work as intended. During 90s Naru will copy herself many times, making creature (eg.) 200/200; if you don't have removal ready, you will lose a game in next turn.
    The point of the LPS isn't to stop decks from winning, it is to stop them from taking several hours to do so.
    It doesn't matter if Naru becomes a 1000/1000, the LPS is just trying to make sure the loop stops itself at some point.
  • Ampersand
    Ampersand Posts: 209 Tile Toppler
    I faced Naruduplicate decks a few times during The Dragon War, and they weren't really a big deal. Always pack removal, and keep it charged. 
  • soultwist
    soultwist Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
    Here's what I'm concerned about.  I see screenshots and have experienced Naru everywhere from about 180/180 to 300/300.  The difference is 36 to 60 copy's cast.  

    Certainly the cards involved can add time but how confident is everyone that every player is getting the same runway?  Do some devices/OSs get to cast more then others?


  • NinjaE
    NinjaE Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
    I'm not getting it to consistently work that way. I just tried to replicate the problem (pun intended) and naru stayed in my hand after being copied.
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  • Dropspot
    Dropspot Posts: 200 Tile Toppler
    edited March 2019
    It's fairly simple to replicate it.

    You need naru and any other spell that fetch a creature (chord, quasi, Vivian).
    Card order is 
    Naru
    quasi
    Xxx
    Xxx

    Cast naru and the loop will start.

    Make sure quasi isn't filled, if it is you can't cast the original copy you have in hand filled. if you do naru may copy other spell in your hand after you copy her and the loop will stop.
  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
    spadpl said:
    LPS doesn't work as intended. During 90s Naru will copy herself many times, making creature (eg.) 200/200; if you don't have removal ready, you will lose a game in next turn.

    The LPS is designed to stop infinite loops (a **** solution), not combos that stomp you in a turn.

    If they fully prevented one turn wins, the game would die. It'd kill the drive of so many players for building decks that they'd just quit.
  • Etan0Winters
    Etan0Winters Posts: 27 Just Dropped In
    edited March 2019
    It's one of several lethal combos which are (sufficiently?) curbed by the LPS. I don't personally see the merit in focusing on its threat to win statistics... if you know about the threat then you have the opportunity to prepare for it (do some work for your rewards). But who the hell am I...

    Starfall's focus seems to be on the threat to the actual experience of playing the game. What he doesn't seem to stress strongly enough (for me anyway) is that it's actually difficult to NOT win the game with any deck with Naruplicate. Way too easy, and if everyone can play it... then where's the challenge? Who would actually want to play this game if everything is designed to take into account Naruplicate? Who would want to join a coalition and spend hours grinding that way? It's a detriment to everything. 
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,090 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mburn7 said:


    B.  Implement the loop prevention system proposed BY THE PLAYERS ON THE FORUMS MONTHS AGO and have it cut turns short after a certain number of cards are played, which would cut short loops like Quasi-Naru and Blue Sun's Bird (names pending trademarks by me) without effecting non-loop strategies that just take a long time like Path of the March or anything involving Huatli Green.


    Which players have proposed that? If it's you suggesting it and then getting a couple likes it doesnt mean that the community is just dying to get that feature. 

    Cutting turns short isn't bad enough so you are suggesting that they put a limit on how many cards a player can cast per turn.... which the LPS already kinda does btw, since you can't cast the cards in your hand after the timer runs out.
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
    khurram said:
    Mburn7 said:


    B.  Implement the loop prevention system proposed BY THE PLAYERS ON THE FORUMS MONTHS AGO and have it cut turns short after a certain number of cards are played, which would cut short loops like Quasi-Naru and Blue Sun's Bird (names pending trademarks by me) without effecting non-loop strategies that just take a long time like Path of the March or anything involving Huatli Green.


    Which players have proposed that? If it's you suggesting it and then getting a couple likes it doesnt mean that the community is just dying to get that feature. 

    Cutting turns short isn't bad enough so you are suggesting that they put a limit on how many cards a player can cast per turn.... which the LPS already kinda does btw, since you can't cast the cards in your hand after the timer runs out.

    Are you completely sure of that?

    But yes, I don't mind forcing loops to take 2 to 3 turns to win. I'd _already_ nerfed my own Sunbird deck to slow down since it would often crash my phone otherwise.

  • tfg76
    tfg76 Posts: 258 Mover and Shaker
    It's probably true that that combo is too good. Also, BSZ is too good. Those kinds of problems aren't solved by changing the rules, it's by better card design and possibly bans or single card nerfs.
  • Ampersand
    Ampersand Posts: 209 Tile Toppler
    Naruplicate would only be "too good" if she had haste as an evergreen. Also, as noted elsewhere, Greg can't really use BSZ very effectively. 

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  • Ampersand
    Ampersand Posts: 209 Tile Toppler
    @starfall True, but I would prefer a non-stupid Greg rather than card nerfs, and just better card design moving forward.

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