Simple solutions to fix PVE & eliminate MMR/Scaling/RBing

Unknown

Edited: to add suggestion from other forumites. See the notes at the bottom.

If you have suggestions, please post a reply and I will edit them into the post as best as I can.

I think I have a simple solution that will work for everyone, new and veteran. It goes like this...

-Get get rid of current scoring system and replace it with a simple point system (explained later). This will remove the need for scaling and Rubberbanding. (1)

-Remove MMR from PVE events. Everyone starts with level 1 enemies and works their way up. You play until you can't pass anymore. But you can keep trying the failed clear over and over until you pass to the next clear or until time runs out.

SIMPLE SCORING SYSTEM:
Every node has 5 levels to clear that counts for points of clear. (Clear 1 is worth 1 point, clear 2 is 2 points, clear 3 is worth three points, clear 4 is worth 4 points, clear 5 is worth 5 points.) So each node is worth 15 points. Example of nodes:

-Node 1
Clear 1 - Level one opp's
Clear 2 - Level three opp's
Clear 3 - Level five opp's
Clear 4 - Level seven opp's
Clear 5 - Level nine opp's (Once fifth clear is achieved, node 2 opens up)

-Node 2
Clear 1 - Level twelve opp's
Clear 2 - Level fifteen opp's
Clear 3 - Level eighteen opp's
Clear 4 - Level twenty-one opp's
Clear 5- Level twenty-five opp's (Once fifth clear is achieved, node 3 opens)

No need to continue listing nodes, I think this makes my point clear. The nodes will continue to rise in difficulty all the way to the hated 395's.

-As you progress, you play different characters of different levels, so that by the time you hit the end of the Event, you have played against EVERY character in MPQ.(2)
-Each level can only be cleared once. No need or ability to grind for extra points. Just a clean and simple game that let's you race to the end.
-If you do the first three clears and leave the game, when you come back, you will be attempting the fourth clear of that node. This lets everyone play to the level that their roster will allow them, which encourages people to continue growing and developing their rosters.
-It eliminates the need to play at "optimal or certain times". Everyone is on the exact same playing field.
-It completely eliminates the need to scale, as everyone gets the same points for the same play.
-No one starts with CRAZY leveled opp's just because they are doing well in the game.

Now I realize that there are probably a lot of veteran players that can beat the 395's. So after the 395's, maybe some kind of bonus nodes that you face a variety of different characters to hash out the leaderboards so we don't have a bunch of ties.

No need for brackets. This is not a PVP competition. This is a PVE. Make it "Progression rewards only" that can be based on the level of opp's you beat. Every 5 clears (1 node), you get progression rewards (Which can be higher because of the elimination of the competitive brackets) based on the levels you just beat.

I'm sure lots of you could poke holes in this. And please feel free to. Maybe we can create a standard for the dev's to work with, provided they really do read these post...

1- Thanks to LordWill. I forgot to mention ruberbanding.
2- Thanks to BelligerentGnu for suggesting the mixing of characters.

LordWill

I had sort of a similar solution, Here

I think either solution would work or maybe even a hybrid.

You know they could KEEP their current system in place and implement this on a separate event level. Call it a different MODE if they want.

Then collect feedback on the in-game poll system...you know, the one they should have in place to see what their paying customers really think?

LordWill

Also thanks for being part of the solution. I keep telling them they have a ton of creative power here with us...

They should hold contests to design the best system, the next character power, the next game mode, the next etc etc etc

Throw some Hero Points, or ISO to the winners.

You would be amazed at what people come up with on here, I have read some of the stuff and its really just amazes me how much creativity we have here.

Its like an entire Creative Dept they don't even need to pay for.

Unknown

LordWill wrote:

I had sort of a similar solution, Here

I think either solution would work or maybe even a hybrid.

You know they could KEEP their current system in place and implement this on a separate event level. Call it a different MODE if they want.

Then collect feedback on the in-game poll system...you know, the one they should have in place to see what their paying customers really think?

Your system sounds great too. And I am glad you linked it. I completely forgot to mention Ruberbanding. (Which has now been edited in. THX)

I think it would work just as well.

Unknown

I really, really like this. Mind you, I'd like to have the challenge rise in more interesting ways than just adding levels each time - mixing up opponents would be good. But yeah, I like it. And there could be achievement tiers for beating certain levels. "GODLIKE: These players have emerged victorious against a level 395 LazyDaken...."

Unknown

BelligerentGnu wrote:

I really, really like this. Mind you, I'd like to have the challenge rise in more interesting ways than just adding levels each time - mixing up opponents would be good. But yeah, I like it. And there could be achievement tiers for beating certain levels. "GODLIKE: These players have emerged victorious against a level 395 LazyDaken...."

Yes! Great suggestion. I will be editing it in now. Mixing up the characters would be great, so that you fight every character in the game by the time you hit the very end.

Unknown

100+ views and no one else has suggestions/comments?

I think if we come together to build something they can actually use, that benefits the game as a whole, they probably will. I went back to the beginning of the forum and looked at the old threads and am amazed at how much of the changes started right here in the forums as suggestions from the forumites.

While it does seem that the communication here is mostly one sided (and I really wish they would hire someone to communicate back with us here in the forums, at least part time), I do believe that our input can mean something if it is well constructed and thought out.

Let's use our experiences and build something that they can't ignore.

LordWill

aaronschmiz wrote:

100+ views and no one else has suggestions/comments?

I think if we come together to build something they can actually use, that benefits the game as a whole, they probably will. I went back to the beginning of the forum and looked at the old threads and am amazed at how much of the changes started right here in the forums as suggestions from the forumites.

While it does seem that the communication here is mostly one sided (and I really wish they would hire someone to communicate back with us here in the forums, at least part time), I do believe that our input can mean something if it is well constructed and thought out.

Let's use our experiences and build something that they can't ignore.

I don't think this is a reflection on you, I think people are just discontent with the game to put in mildly right now.

I'm hoping D3 will turn things around and listen but who knows.

Hang in there...

Unknown

LordWill wrote:

I think people are just discontent with the game to put in mildly right now.

I'm hoping D3 will turn things around and listen but who knows.

Mildly?

That's a complete and utter sugar coat job if there ever was one.

LordWill

lol I was being sarcastic

Its about as frustrating as person trapped in a burning building but refusing to be rescued even though you are right there and could save them from utter destruction.

Or throwing out a lifeline to a drowning victim and they refuse to take it because they are too prideful....

Unknown

There is one major flaw with your (any suggestion). I am almost certain at this point that the developers are not ignoring or disregarding player/user feedback. I think we must give them more credit than that. I think the underlying problem might be twofold: groupthink and paternalism.

I think they all are on the same page and see everything from the same point of view. That combined with the paternalism has brought about this creative environment where they are not ignoring users/players. Rather, they just feel we cannot see their "grand vision", they know what is best, and we are all little kids who simply do not understand that they are doing what is best.

It's better than the alternative that they just hate us and love torturing us for their own sick amusement. Although, that option does sound fun:D

LordWill

stephen43084 wrote:

There is one major flaw with your (any suggestion). I am almost certain at this point that the developers are not ignoring or disregarding player/user feedback. I think we must give them more credit than that. I think the underlying problem might be twofold: groupthink and paternalism.

I think they all are on the same page and see everything from the same point of view. That combined with the paternalism has brought about this creative environment where they are not ignoring users/players. Rather, they just feel we cannot see their "grand vision", they know what is best, and we are all little kids who simply do not understand that they are doing what is best.

It's better than the alternative that they just hate us and love torturing us for their own sick amusement. Although, that option does sound fun:D

Maybe, but my parents at least explained WHY I look both ways before crossing the street or WHY I shouldn't put my fingers in electrical sockets.

I would be totally fine if they WOULD tell us what the grand vision is, however given their track record and a few posts by Ice (And I'm paraphrasing) explaining this is new territory for them and they are doing a lot of testing to see what works and what doesn't.

So they may have a road map of new characters to be released but aside from that, I don't know if they do have a grand plan. I would love to hear it.

And while they're at it, maybe they can tell me how to play their game as well. What are they wanting from us? What is their vision of playing the game supposed to look like?

Maybe you are right and they don't need our suggestions. Seems like they are doing a great job of having everything under control with their grand vision....

Unknown

You misunderstand, I'm not saying that don't need our suggestion. I'm just saying after forum member after forum member giving them the same type of feedback that you are, it pretty much comes down to just a few possibilities. One is that they are ignoring us (you, me, and people like us). However, if it turns out that this is not true, how the heck do you explain why they are not listening to the feedback provided? If they are not ignoring us, the most likely theories I can think of is (1) their changes all result in more money, or a less pessimistic theory, is that they are just victim of group think and paternalism.

Well, there is another explanation. All their decisions may just be arbitrary. Maybe they use RNG for making game changes as well. We just keep landing on one star covers instead of the legendary four star covers. Maybe the developers are all just different programs of a supercomputer that controls MPQ. All their responses are based on RNG. Holy tiny kitty, this is the Matrix. Ice is the oracle, and...ummm...well...I guess scaling, mmr, etc. would be Agent Smith. Okay, maybe it's like the 13th Floor...lol.

Unknown

Feedback:

This game is all about leaderboards. I think removing it from PvE would be a mistake.

Having a rotating roster every event would make all events the same. You want certain events to feature characters you don't see in other IMO.

Having an upper limit that only people with the best rosters can beat is problematic in a game where you need the rewards to flesh out said rosters... Which all come from the highest tiers. They'd have to redo the reward system so top players don't continue to have a guaranteed route to get their cards

As frustrating as rubber banding and scaling is, it does allow Joe Schmo to get in the top rankings occasionally. In pvp, they will be getting attacked and what not. In this one they can just grind away and maybe end up in the top!

I'd add one suggestion though: leave alliances out of PvE. Alliances already compel you to play ever versus event. Peer pressuring me into playing PvE as well is a bit much I think

_RiO_

CornerPocket wrote:

This game is all about leaderboards.

And therein lies the problem.

The prologue was fun; building out your roster to meet the rising challenge. PvE used to be a more challenging version of the prologue, basically, and a decent amount of 2* and even the occasional 3* cover at the top of the progression rewards meant you could pick your event to dedicate time to and if all else failed just grind that sucker to get something worthwhile out of it. Ever since scaling was introduced, especially community scaling, it's been turned into a timed race until the levels inflate too high and you get stonewalled from scoring any points period.

PvP? PvP means pressure to play dedicated (especially the final few hours): answering retaliations, smartly climbing the points ladder with minimal number of matches, dealing with being kicked back down the ladder, picking your time to put up a (ridiculously expensive...) shield, etc.

You want competition and leaderboards? Play the PvP events or rehashable events like 'The Simulator'. Leave the story-heavy PvE alone and let those people that jumped on this bandwagon because they like the prologue's game model, have some fun as well.