In the past, players have requested less of the The Return of the God-Pharaoh event, because it was so frequently scheduled; at one point, it was every other weekend! In this case though, the last time this event was run was back at the end of December; specifically the weekend of the 21st.
This question should probably be its own thread, but for the sake of addressing this topic in a swift manner, are there any other variables as to why players aren't interested in playing this event?
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ArielSiraMover and ShakerPosts: 299Mover and Shaker
For me it's because it runs from Friday till Monday. If it ended on Sunday it would be a lot better already. I've heard others complain about having to continue quite a while beyond personal rewards so that's basically the same thing; the extra day isn't needed but drags it on.
This is on top of the usual "Monday is a workday so can't play final charge"-issues people might have.
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WafflesauceJust Dropped InPosts: 47Just Dropped In
The biggest 'variables' of RotGP that leaves a sour taste in my mouth is the variable end time of the event.
Variable end times are very destructive towards highly competitive coalitions when paired up with the current refresh system.
The refresh system of this game already strongly penalizes those of us who don't work and sleep according to the "Normal North American circadian rhythm." Events with an HP amount make this even worse by applying those effects to your entire player base, as well as potentially invalidating the efforts of hours upon hours of gameplay due to the event ending an hour after a refresh, and another group just happened to have more players active at that time. If the boss doesn't die, then you have it going into the standard work week on Monday, again disrupting many players that normally aren't disrupted.
It has happened before. It will happen again if you don't eliminate boss HP events /or/ you could implement a better refresh system/give all charges up front. Last time it happened, it was the straw that broke me for stopping competitive play for some time.
Do the smart thing. Don't run an event that disrupts and frustrates your most loyal customers (competitive players).
Also, please consider changing the refresh system, as I have advocated and written into detail several times previously.
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OpperstamperJust Dropped InPosts: 27Just Dropped In
Roughly 6 months ago, in the july+august answers thread, we've gotten this answer address event end times:
Is there any way to give us more time at the end of events to complete a final refresh? 6 hours (or less) is not too player friendly across the world. We are currently looking at this and other options, in order to allow players in different regions the chance to participate equally in events.
Brigby, has this been on the agenda since then? Any follow up information? RotGP falls in the "or less" part of the question.
I'll second the frustration that is the refresh system. It does nothing for the player community to help us enjoy the game and coalition events. Building your free time around a game just isn't possible for many, and as wafflesauce points out, impossible for many that live in time zones differing from the Americas. Heck, some events are even difficult for west cost US players to play every charge.
I can't think of a compelling reason to not give players all charges at the beginning of the event.
As someone with a "Normal North American circadian rhythm," I have to chime in on a couple things here.
First, we get screwed in plenty of events too, so I don't think pitting time zones against each other solves anything. (EC and other events often require me to play between 11pm and 5am if I want to finish and plenty of boss coalition events have ended at awful times here as well.)
Mostly though, the quoted "solution" worries me. It reads to me as if they'd actually consider it a success if they scatter event times so it's equally bad for everyone. The focus needs to be on extending the time for the last charge, which includes sufficient time for all to finish after a boss is defeated.
As someone with a "Normal North American circadian rhythm," I have to chime in on a couple things here.
First, we get screwed in plenty of events too, so I don't think pitting time zones against each other solves anything. (EC and other events often require me to play between 11pm and 5am if I want to finish and plenty of boss coalition events have ended at awful times here as well.)
Mostly though, the quoted "solution" worries me. It reads to me as if they'd actually consider it a success if they scatter event times so it's equally bad for everyone. The focus needs to be on extending the time for the last charge, which includes sufficient time for all to finish after a boss is defeated.
I totally understand. I live in the Midwest, but my shift and sleep schedule is constantly changing, due to being a "fixer" of a 24/7 pharmaceutical plant, giving me an insightful to international players. The refresh system definitely does affect everyone, but competitive coalition events are consistently biased towards "the average American."
I definitely do not think that the event timings should be shifted around so that different groups should be disparagingly rotated.
Anyone who wants to see the past discussions can check out my relatively short post history, but there are 2 primary viable solutions proposed: 1) Increase the amount of time between the last charge and event end to 10 hours or more.
2) Give players all charges up front and let them complete the competitive event at their own pace.
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starfallChairperson of the BoardsPosts: 1,514Chairperson of the Boards
Everyone loves TDW. Please run TDW 40 times like you have with RotGP.
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LaeuftbeidirChairperson of the BoardsPosts: 1,837Chairperson of the Boards
In the past, players have requested less of the The Return of the God-Pharaoh event, because it was so frequently scheduled; at one point, it was every other weekend! In this case though, the last time this event was run was back at the end of December; specifically the weekend of the 21st.
This question should probably be its own thread, but for the sake of addressing this topic in a swift manner, are there any other variables as to why players aren't interested in playing this event?
The problem with all the HOU events is firstly that we're oversaturated. We have seen HoR + RotGP + HoD over 60 times overall. They're followed by the amk events that we haven't seen in ages, but still surpass all Oktagon events in times played. Nothing you've got on your list has the chance to feel fresh since there's nothing new. Scheduling this event every two months is still too much after 25 runs.. But I agree that you need to throw out in the mix since it's working and you don't want us to feel the same about the new events.Personally, my top reason.. I'm tired of an event that was not really enjoyable a year ago and find it annoying /lazy to not develop new events or at least to recycle other existing events.
Also, the thing with the random event ending time.. Just schedule the timer for Sunday and give it 40mio health or follow any of the communities ideas to make it more interesting.
A perfect schedule for me would follow a three week plan. The first week would have a pvp or a pve coalition event from the latest set, followed by an event from any standard set (switching regularly) followed by an old legacy event every third week.
Anyone who wants to see the past discussions can check out my relatively short post history, but there are 2 primary viable solutions proposed: 1) Increase the amount of time between the last charge and event end to 10 hours or more.
2) Give players all charges up front and let them complete the competitive event at their own pace.
Completely agree/sorry for some of my wording. I really see them botching a solution, so that's where my negativity was supposed to be directed. I'm amazed it's stayed this way for my 1 year, let alone all 3 or however many.
Though I do play well and nearly every meaningful charge, I am still trying to stay casual, so most events are about as important for me. However, I definitely get others focus on coalition event timing and missed that many (most?) do benefit me.
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starfallChairperson of the BoardsPosts: 1,514Chairperson of the Boards
RotGP is a Standard event which has been converted into a Legacy event. So we, the players, have a vast card pool to choose from to solve the event, much larger than the one which the designers had in mind when the event was designed. There are more and easier solutions available to us now. It's true, of course, that when RotGP was designed cycling decks were at full power, but clearly Hibernum did not realise the power of those decks, in a way that Oktagon does: they chose to nerf cycling, even as it dropped into the more powerful card pool of Legacy.
PvE is less varied than PvP. You play the same 15 decks repeatedly within an event; and then you repeatedly play against those same decks repeatedly every time the event is run. It will take players of different standards different amounts of time to 'solve' the levels of a PvE event, but when they do, the challenge of playing it is largely lost. Even top tier players probably struggled a little against Nicol Bolas in RotGP, or Tezzeret in RatC the first time we played against him, but we have long since developed strategies to beat them without any chance of a loss, and it only gets easier with power creep (e.g. Blue Sun's Zenith) or the release of cards which facilitate entirely new strategies (e.g. Beacon Bolt). PvE events suffer from diminishing returns of enjoyment much faster than PvP events where there is likely to be a broader spectrum of decks; and PvP decks naturally change to accommodate the release of new cards with no intervention by the dev team.
PvE is also less balanced to each individual player's abilities than PvP. Level 2.2, for example, is trivial and uninteresting to an advanced player, but could be too difficult and frustrating for a beginner. A small minority of the player base will find any given level tailored towards their capabilities as a player, whereas, in PvP, your mastery tier and planeswalker level are much more likely (although, not certain!) to find you an opponent who will be a decent challenge.
I'm not arguing against Legacy events or PvE events entirely, they do, after all, increase the overall level of variety of experiences within the game, and I find solving particularly well designed PvE levels rewarding. But I do think that events, particularly coalition events, should be skewed towards Standard PvP.
@Brigby any update here on switching out the HATED ROTGP for something else like TDW? Could we see the March schedule? Any chance we could get a couple mid-week coalition events in March?
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UweTellkampfMover and ShakerPosts: 376Mover and Shaker
Let’s take a different approach instead of you asking the player base why it hates this event, which happens almost every time it’s scheduled. You tell us why it’s being scheduled? Why ROGTP over the other 20 plus events you have in your back pocket?
Because the player base will always tell you how we feel, but I think it would be more impactful to hear what the devs or scheduler thought process was for putting ROGTP on deck again.
Let’s take a different approach instead of you asking the player base why it hates this event, which happens almost every time it’s scheduled. You tell us why it’s being scheduled? Why ROGTP over the other 20 plus events you have in your back pocket?
Because the player base will always tell you how we feel, but I think it would be more impactful to hear what the devs or scheduler thought process was for putting ROGTP on deck again.
Sure! Keep in mind I'm no developer, but I do have limited access to some information that might help explain the scheduling decision.
The first point of data I'd like to reference is player sentiment. It's clear that players on the forum aren't exactly excited about another run of the event. Based on our 2018 survey results though, RotGP is actually the second most favorite PvE event among overall players. The number 1 answer was The Journey Through History events.
The second point of data I'd like to reference is the past event schedule. By going through the event schedule all the way back until the last time RotGP was run (12/21/18), we find that this was the order in which we ran the major events (not counting daily events, like Training Grounds):
Return of the God-Pharaoh
Holiday Showdown
Trial of Ambition
The Long Cold Darkness
The Phyrexian Compleation
A World Reborn
Holiday Showdown
Nodes of Power
A Nightmare of War
The Space-Time Catastrophe
Hour of Devastation
Holiday Showdown
Emrakul's Corruption
Oath of the Gatewatch: Pt 1
Across Ixalan
Oath of the Gatewatch: Pt 2
The Dragon War
Fate is Rarely Fair
Fateful Showdown
Race to Orazca
Zendikar Vs Eldrazi
Nodes of Power
Across Ixalan
Avacyn's Madness
Tour de Ravnica
Terrors in the Shadows
The Long Cold Darkness
The Phyrexian Compleation
The Dragon War
Emrakul's Corruption
A Nightmare of War
The Space-Time Catastrophe
Across Ixalan
Battle of Four Tribes: Pt 1
Trial of Ambition
Revolt Against the Consulate
Angel's Embrace
Nodes of Power
Battle of Four Tribes: Pt 2
Emrakul's Corruption
Fateful Showdown
Tour de Ravnica
Hour of Revelation
Terrors in the Shadows
Oath of the Gatewatch: Pt 1
Oath of the Gatewatch: Pt 2
Return of the God-Pharaoh
Here are the number of times every event was played in between the two occurrences of Return of the God Pharaoh:
3 Times
Holiday Showdown
Nodes of Power
Emrakul's Corruption
Across Ixalan
2 Times
Trial of Ambition
The Long Cold Darkness
The Phyrexian Compleation
A Nightmare of War
The Space-Time Catastrophe
Oath of the Gatewatch: Pt 1
Oath of the Gatewatch: Pt 2
The Dragon War
Fateful Showdown
Tour de Ravnica
Terrors in the Shadows
1 Time
A World Reborn
Hour of Devastation
Fate is Rarely Fair
Race to Orazca
Zendikar vs Eldrazi
Avacyn's Madness
Battle of Four Tribes: Pt 1
Revolt Against the Consulate
Angel's Embrace: 1x
Battle of Four Tribes: Pt 2
Hour of Revelation
Based on this information, it would appear that the team had ran 26 other unique events before re-running Return of the God-Pharaoh.
Unfortunately, the only events that matter to coalitions in between the two runs are coalition events, so the list of relevant events should be condensed
Yea. although that seems like a wide breadth of events @sjechua points to the truth only the coalition events really matter here which would be HOR, BOFT 1&2, AM, RTO, HOD, TDW. Most of them have only been run once so I believe there was other events that could have been booted up. What ever happened to trial of zeal?
Comments
This question should probably be its own thread, but for the sake of addressing this topic in a swift manner, are there any other variables as to why players aren't interested in playing this event?
This is on top of the usual "Monday is a workday so can't play final charge"-issues people might have.
The biggest 'variables' of RotGP that leaves a sour taste in my mouth is the variable end time of the event.
Variable end times are very destructive towards highly competitive coalitions when paired up with the current refresh system.
The refresh system of this game already strongly penalizes those of us who don't work and sleep according to the "Normal North American circadian rhythm." Events with an HP amount make this even worse by applying those effects to your entire player base, as well as potentially invalidating the efforts of hours upon hours of gameplay due to the event ending an hour after a refresh, and another group just happened to have more players active at that time. If the boss doesn't die, then you have it going into the standard work week on Monday, again disrupting many players that normally aren't disrupted.
It has happened before. It will happen again if you don't eliminate boss HP events /or/ you could implement a better refresh system/give all charges up front. Last time it happened, it was the straw that broke me for stopping competitive play for some time.
Do the smart thing. Don't run an event that disrupts and frustrates your most loyal customers (competitive players).
Also, please consider changing the refresh system, as I have advocated and written into detail several times previously.
Is there any way to give us more time at the end of events to complete a final refresh? 6 hours (or less) is not too player friendly across the world.
We are currently looking at this and other options, in order to allow players in different regions the chance to participate equally in events.
Brigby, has this been on the agenda since then? Any follow up information? RotGP falls in the "or less" part of the question.
I can't think of a compelling reason to not give players all charges at the beginning of the event.
As someone with a "Normal North American circadian rhythm," I have to chime in on a couple things here.
First, we get screwed in plenty of events too, so I don't think pitting time zones against each other solves anything. (EC and other events often require me to play between 11pm and 5am if I want to finish and plenty of boss coalition events have ended at awful times here as well.)
Mostly though, the quoted "solution" worries me. It reads to me as if they'd actually consider it a success if they scatter event times so it's equally bad for everyone. The focus needs to be on extending the time for the last charge, which includes sufficient time for all to finish after a boss is defeated.
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/77407/tour-de-ravnica-tiered-rewards
@Brigby
I definitely do not think that the event timings should be shifted around so that different groups should be disparagingly rotated.
Anyone who wants to see the past discussions can check out my relatively short post history, but there are 2 primary viable solutions proposed:
1) Increase the amount of time between the last charge and event end to 10 hours or more.
2) Give players all charges up front and let them complete the competitive event at their own pace.
Completely agree/sorry for some of my wording. I really see them botching a solution, so that's where my negativity was supposed to be directed. I'm amazed it's stayed this way for my 1 year, let alone all 3 or however many.
Though I do play well and nearly every meaningful charge, I am still trying to stay casual, so most events are about as important for me. However, I definitely get others focus on coalition event timing and missed that many (most?) do benefit me.
PvE is less varied than PvP. You play the same 15 decks repeatedly within an event; and then you repeatedly play against those same decks repeatedly every time the event is run. It will take players of different standards different amounts of time to 'solve' the levels of a PvE event, but when they do, the challenge of playing it is largely lost. Even top tier players probably struggled a little against Nicol Bolas in RotGP, or Tezzeret in RatC the first time we played against him, but we have long since developed strategies to beat them without any chance of a loss, and it only gets easier with power creep (e.g. Blue Sun's Zenith) or the release of cards which facilitate entirely new strategies (e.g. Beacon Bolt). PvE events suffer from diminishing returns of enjoyment much faster than PvP events where there is likely to be a broader spectrum of decks; and PvP decks naturally change to accommodate the release of new cards with no intervention by the dev team.
PvE is also less balanced to each individual player's abilities than PvP. Level 2.2, for example, is trivial and uninteresting to an advanced player, but could be too difficult and frustrating for a beginner. A small minority of the player base will find any given level tailored towards their capabilities as a player, whereas, in PvP, your mastery tier and planeswalker level are much more likely (although, not certain!) to find you an opponent who will be a decent challenge.
I'm not arguing against Legacy events or PvE events entirely, they do, after all, increase the overall level of variety of experiences within the game, and I find solving particularly well designed PvE levels rewarding. But I do think that events, particularly coalition events, should be skewed towards Standard PvP.
Because the player base will always tell you how we feel, but I think it would be more impactful to hear what the devs or scheduler thought process was for putting ROGTP on deck again.
The first point of data I'd like to reference is player sentiment. It's clear that players on the forum aren't exactly excited about another run of the event. Based on our 2018 survey results though, RotGP is actually the second most favorite PvE event among overall players. The number 1 answer was The Journey Through History events.
The second point of data I'd like to reference is the past event schedule. By going through the event schedule all the way back until the last time RotGP was run (12/21/18), we find that this was the order in which we ran the major events (not counting daily events, like Training Grounds):
- Return of the God-Pharaoh
- Holiday Showdown
- Trial of Ambition
- The Long Cold Darkness
- The Phyrexian Compleation
- A World Reborn
- Holiday Showdown
- Nodes of Power
- A Nightmare of War
- The Space-Time Catastrophe
- Hour of Devastation
- Holiday Showdown
- Emrakul's Corruption
- Oath of the Gatewatch: Pt 1
- Across Ixalan
- Oath of the Gatewatch: Pt 2
- The Dragon War
- Fate is Rarely Fair
- Fateful Showdown
- Race to Orazca
- Zendikar Vs Eldrazi
- Nodes of Power
- Across Ixalan
- Avacyn's Madness
- Tour de Ravnica
- Terrors in the Shadows
- The Long Cold Darkness
- The Phyrexian Compleation
- The Dragon War
- Emrakul's Corruption
- A Nightmare of War
- The Space-Time Catastrophe
- Across Ixalan
- Battle of Four Tribes: Pt 1
- Trial of Ambition
- Revolt Against the Consulate
- Angel's Embrace
- Nodes of Power
- Battle of Four Tribes: Pt 2
- Emrakul's Corruption
- Fateful Showdown
- Tour de Ravnica
- Hour of Revelation
- Terrors in the Shadows
- Oath of the Gatewatch: Pt 1
- Oath of the Gatewatch: Pt 2
- Return of the God-Pharaoh
Here are the number of times every event was played in between the two occurrences of Return of the God Pharaoh:3 Times
- Holiday Showdown
- Nodes of Power
- Emrakul's Corruption
- Across Ixalan
2 Times- Trial of Ambition
- The Long Cold Darkness
- The Phyrexian Compleation
- A Nightmare of War
- The Space-Time Catastrophe
- Oath of the Gatewatch: Pt 1
- Oath of the Gatewatch: Pt 2
- The Dragon War
- Fateful Showdown
- Tour de Ravnica
- Terrors in the Shadows
1 Time- A World Reborn
- Hour of Devastation
- Fate is Rarely Fair
- Race to Orazca
- Zendikar vs Eldrazi
- Avacyn's Madness
- Battle of Four Tribes: Pt 1
- Revolt Against the Consulate
- Angel's Embrace: 1x
- Battle of Four Tribes: Pt 2
- Hour of Revelation
Based on this information, it would appear that the team had ran 26 other unique events before re-running Return of the God-Pharaoh.