Impotent Pairs

jackstar0

In a Lightning Round I decided to try a pair that seemed like they should work because of source material, but who are woefully bad together (5* BP and Okoye). I also gave OML/Kitty a shot and while they're not terrible, I do wish they were better together.

So is there a pair you would like to see work better based on source material? Is there a pair you especially enjoy (like the good synergy of some GotG)?

SymmeTrey

The Fantastic Four have no good interaction between any of them that I can see or think of. That seems a shame.

Dragon_Nexus

SymmeTrey said:

The Fantastic Four have no good interaction between any of them that I can see or think of. That seems a shame.

Mr Fantastic used to before they reworked him.

Vhailorx

5*BP and okoye work well together.

Yes, they have total color overlap, but they actually don't have any active power overlap.  Plus, okoye's black will boost BP's black massively.    And her yellow will help his yellow proc more often. 

It's not as good as half-thor/okoye or anything, but it's not trash.

Jaedenkaal

SymmeTrey said:

The Fantastic Four have no good interaction between any of them that I can see or think of. That seems a shame.

All of the FF can create 4 or more special tiles that Mr F can work with to deal damage with Flexibility. It's not fantastic, but it's something.

Jaedenkaal

OJSP said:

Jaedenkaal said:

SymmeTrey said:

The Fantastic Four have no good interaction between any of them that I can see or think of. That seems a shame.

All of the FF can create 4 or more special tiles that Mr F can work with to deal damage with Flexibility. It's not fantastic, but it's something.

MrF Torch and Bag-man used to be good together. Now Bag-man needs a buff.. his Snarky Remark was useful to prolong Imaginaut tiles. Now, it's just snarky and hurtful.. It will be interesting to see if it is still a viable team in Combined Arms.

If we're strictly talking about pairs, then it's a bit harder. They are meant to be good in a team of 4 afterall..

That team sounds like a stretch to me...

MoosePrime

Vhailorx said:

5*BP and okoye work well together.

Yes, they have total color overlap, but they actually don't have any active power overlap.  Plus, okoye's black will boost BP's black massively.    And her yellow will help his yellow proc more often. 

It's not as good as half-thor/okoye or anything, but it's not trash.

But if Okoye is not in front, you lose the TU AP that you need for Panther's yellow.  And if Panther's yellow triggers, you lose the TU AP that Okoye wants to keep for her black.

TPF Alexis

I really wish that Bucky paired well with some version of Cap. And, well, was better in general.

I love the way that both the 3* and 4* pairs of Luke Cage and Iron Fist work together. Even without taking the explicit synergy bonuses the 4* have into account, they complement each other very nicely.

Vhailorx

MoosePrime said:

Vhailorx said:

5*BP and okoye work well together.

Yes, they have total color overlap, but they actually don't have any active power overlap.  Plus, okoye's black will boost BP's black massively.    And her yellow will help his yellow proc more often. 

It's not as good as half-thor/okoye or anything, but it's not trash.

But if Okoye is not in front, you lose the TU AP that you need for Panther's yellow.  And if Panther's yellow triggers, you lose the TU AP that Okoye wants to keep for her black.

Yup. I said it wasn't perfect.  But it's also not trash.  BP's black is strong anyway, but add in 10-20k extra damage per proc from okoye's black?  That's devastating, esepcially since she has a cheap yellow to cause cascades. (If you are using it right, you should be getting at least 5-8 procs every time you cast it). 

jackstar0

Opinions are fun, everyone.

Please be cool.

Daredevil217

Every time I hear "impotent" (or "fickle") I think of "the new" Daniel Bryan (for any WWE fans out there).

To answer the question, having just entered the 5* tier I just wish some characters were better in general.  Three of my favorite villains of all time are represented there in Green Goblin, Doom and Fisk (Mags and Bullseye probably round out the top 5 in no specific order) and all are mid tier at best.  Make them better first, then I'd worry about synergy with others.

I do love how both versions of Deadpool have no overlap with Cable.  Hoping we get a 5* with Black/Red/Purple coverage that makes Nathan more viable.

sambrookjm

Jaedenkaal said:

OJSP said:

Jaedenkaal said:

SymmeTrey said:

The Fantastic Four have no good interaction between any of them that I can see or think of. That seems a shame.

All of the FF can create 4 or more special tiles that Mr F can work with to deal damage with Flexibility. It's not fantastic, but it's something.

MrF Torch and Bag-man used to be good together. Now Bag-man needs a buff.. his Snarky Remark was useful to prolong Imaginaut tiles. Now, it's just snarky and hurtful.. It will be interesting to see if it is still a viable team in Combined Arms.

If we're strictly talking about pairs, then it's a bit harder. They are meant to be good in a team of 4 afterall..

That team sounds like a stretch to me...

I disagree; any fight I used that team with was in the bag, man...

Vhailorx

Daredevil217 said:

Every time I hear "impotent" (or "fickle") I think of "the new" Daniel Bryan (for any WWE fans out there).

To answer the question, having just entered the 5* tier I just wish some characters were better in general.  Three of my favorite villains of all time are represented there in Green Goblin, Doom and Fisk (Mags and Bullseye probably round out the top 5 in no specific order) and all are mid tier at best.  Make them better first, then I'd worry about synergy with others.

I do love how both versions of Deadpool have no overlap with Cable.  Hoping we get a 5* with Black/Red/Purple coverage that makes Nathan more viable.

I think you can cut GG a break.  He is 2 years old now, and was arguably top tier (at least in 1-off matches) upon release.  The meta has left him behind for sure.  But Fisk was bad upon announcement, let along 2 years later. 

I think the community is a bit low on GED.  He seems like a true healing JJ to me.  Decent but slow on offense, surprisingly good on defense in pvp. That seems good to me, just behind the top tier; not meta, but good enough to champ and use.

But in general, yeah, villains remain wildly underrepresented in this game.  There is barely anyone one to use the children of Thanos supports with.

JHawkInc

I second Okoye and 5* BP. It takes a little re-thinking, because you don't necessarily want to just tank Okoye in front all the time and stockpile as much Team-UP AP as you can. You kinda end up hovering with a low/moderate amount, using yellow to generate more team-up, and matching yellow for BP's extra damage. Stacking BP's yellow with his black and even the tiniest buff from Okoye's black can get a little crazy. It just takes a little juggling of the two, you have to play "floaty", if that makes sense (which is part of what makes it not a strong enough team to be close to meta). Their supports kinda riff off of each other as well (Okoye gets cheaper powers and more Team-Up AP, and makes some strikes, Panther can generate red for her and make some protects and buff both of their tiles, and both have an extra source of damage, which is good compared with both of their black powers).

It's certainly not perfect, but it works.


I'd like to see some better pairings with some groups of partners. War Machine and Iron Man, Cap and Falcon, maybe Scarlet Witch and Vision. Not necessarily by changing the ones we have, it could be an idea if they ever need another variant down the road, but it'd be nice to be able to field such characters together and have them do complimentary things instead of just "being there." I do like that War Machine works with Carol, though (even if it still isn't great because of how clunky War Machine is at the moment).

Kolence

@Vhailorx
Just a nitpick. Goblin is 3 years old. Or will be very shortly...

I'd love to see 5* Wasp work on her own first, and then also be great with Ant-Man, how Miles makes Spidey (PP) so much better, or Gamora goes with Daredevil.

fight4thedream

Vhailorx said:

I think the community is a bit low on GED.  He seems like a true healing JJ to me.  Decent but slow on offense, surprisingly good on defense in pvp. That seems good to me, just behind the top tier; not meta, but good enough to champ and use.

That's an intriguing assertion and I am curious how you reached such a conclusion.

JJ has three offensive abilities. Her blue places trap tiles on the board that forces the opposition to consider the board more carefully. If JJ sets off a trap, not only does she do 10K damage but she generates 3AP in your team's strongest color.

Significantly, these traps are set on black, red, and blue, colors you are going to want to chase. It also forces the attacking player to be mindful of the board, at times forcing them to make matches to avoid the damage and AP gain.

Her red is cheaper and enhances her black. It makes 5 strike tiles.

Her black is a nice nuke. Even if you lose 2 strike tiles from her red, she will still do more damage than Doom's black.

In short, her powers coalesce to maximize damage. In most circumstances, she is the first character a player will target because the longer you leave her active the higher risk of damage you will face.

Doom has one offensive ability.

His blue passive steals one AP of black/yellow when an enemy makes a match on those respective colors. His healing only kicks in if the enemy makes matches in black/yellow. His yellow heal is a burst heal and is only valuable under certain situations (e.g. your two teammates are both at low health). His board shake is usually useful but expensive.

In short, a lot of Doom's value is situational. His passive heal is mostly useless if he is saved for last (which kitty/grocket teams will certainly do) and is dependent on the enemy team making those matches. His yellow is expensive and it's very likely you will have already lost one character by the time you have enough yellow to do anything.

Had his blue passive healing ability been tied to the player's own matches of yellow and black rather than on the condition of the enemy team making matches and had his yellow been AoE rather than a burst heal skill,  you might have had an argument and Doom could have made a great tank. But as it is, JJ' s abilities synergize well together while Doom's are more situational and awkward. Additionally, JJ makes a far better partner with more characters than Doom.

Coincidentally, while people have been touting Doom as a Kitty/Okoye counter, in actual practice he is a moderately good counter against JJ. A Kitty/Grocket player will simply save Doom for last rendering his blue meaningless. Yes, there is a risk of his black nuke going off but that's very board dependent and since Kitty/Grocket basically isn't concerned with AP gathering, a savvy player will be sure to deny Doom black. Sure he gets 1 AP, but by the time he gathers enough black the match should be long over.

Okoye has Thor passively generating yellow, so there is no need for her to match it. In fact, it will dry the board up of yellow, making it even more difficult for Doom to collect yellow. But even if she did make a match, the 1 AP won't mean much because by the time Doom collects 10 yellow AP, the match should be over. Additionally, if you have the good fortune of having Okoye tanking over Thor, then black will be of little concern since she can heal it off.

No, Doom is best suited as a JJ counter. And even then, it's nothing to write home about. He can prolong her ability to get enough black on the board and can heal off a little less than half the damage done to him by her passive blue if she matches black.

Simply put, Doom is outclassed by JJ. In a meta that favors offensive presence, Doom brings one nuke while JJ brings 3 decent offensive abilities with one having strong potential to surpass Doom's one. Even in terms of defensive presence, JJ is by far the more dangerous of the two. Just ask yourself, all things being equal, if you had a choice between fighting a Thor/Okoye/JJ team vs a Thor/Okoye/Doom team for the same points, which would you choose?

Just to be clear, I am not saying Doom is a bad character. Just under current circumstances, I don't think he is on the same level as JJ. 

ZootSax

Kolence said:

I'd love to see 5* Wasp work on her own first, and then also be great with Ant-Man, how Miles makes Spidey (PP) so much better, or Gamora goes with Daredevil.

Yeah, even if the swarm mechanic was tweaked to be viable, there's really no synergy between Ant-Man & the Wasp.  Oddly, Ghost works much better with Wasp, while Ant-Man does nothing much for either of them.