Tokens now count as summons?!? [By Design]

Gun Bunny
Gun Bunny Posts: 233 Tile Toppler
edited January 2019 in MtGPQ Bugs & Technical Issues
*sigh* new update, new bugs, lather, rinse, repeat....

Playing Nodes of Power green node, running a sepesnya token deck and got to the end of my match without a creature in the deck, and lost both objectives with a total of 52 creatures summoned somehow.

WHY does this always happens? If an objective means one thing then gets changed to mean something else, why isn't it in the release notes?

//Edited Title -Brigby
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Comments

  • Unknown
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  • Tremayne
    Tremayne Posts: 1,673 Chairperson of the Boards
    Starfall has a point that the necessary information can be added in game to clarify things.

    however I think that would just be a bandage on the real problem - terminology and consistent rules.

    the following is examples not wording of my suggestion of the future rules.
    Type - a card can be one of the following types: Creature, Spell or Support.
    Cast - when a card is filled with mana you can cast it regardless of card type.
    Summon - when casting a creature card you summon a creature which is put on the battlefield.
    Entering the battlefield - a summoned creature enter the battlefield and any ETB effects is triggered.
    Spell generated creatures (Tokens) - casting a spell that generates one or more creatures tokens does not summon creatures, however the token creatures will trigger any ETB effects.

    When rules and definitions like the above exists then we can behind to understand what is correct and incorrect interactions in MTGPQ.
  • Unknown
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  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    This will soon be clarified as "bugged as intended"
  • Monkeynutts
    Monkeynutts Posts: 566 Critical Contributor
    MARCH OF THE MULTITUDES counts are summoning creatures.....

    THEY ARE TOKENS come on! you fixed this **** in SOI with the whole summoning spirit malarkey that happened back then.

    Fix it
  • Feden
    Feden Posts: 79 Match Maker
    Just in case that wasn't bad enough...

    Apparently returning creatures from your graveyard (i.e. Primevals' Glorious Rebirth), now counts as well?!?


    I had a coalition mate warn about tokens, so I went a different route to be safe.  Well, at least I thought I'd be safe..
  • ArielSira
    ArielSira Posts: 520 Critical Contributor
    I raise you; stealing creatures (like with In Bolas' Clutches) also counts, as well as via cards such as Viv Invocation.

    For example I stole a Slimefoot, matched 2 green; 3 creatures cast.

    I love this game and the work Okta puts in but these surprise bugs after updates are so annoying.
  • Feden
    Feden Posts: 79 Match Maker
    Haha! Wow. That's a close one.  I guess any possible way to trigger entering the battlefield effects now count? (Which Clutches shouldn't be doing anyway, but that's another issue.)

    At least the rewards aren't great on this one or I'd be tempted to win with just Vraska (1)'s ult again.

    (and yeah, echo positive game statements.  It's great for what is it, just always hoping it's a little better.)
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sounds like we have been reverted to the pre-Innistrad rules on creature summons.

    @Brigby @Tombstone @Oktagon_Daiane was this intentional?  The rules were changed back then because creature objectives were almost impossible to meet without extreme luck.  Nowadays with cards like Dowsing Dagger being commonly used the issue is much more severe.

    If this was an intentional change I would STRONGLY recommend changing it back.  If it was accidental, please fix it ASAP.
  • Tombstone
    Tombstone ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    Hi everyone, Token Creatures do count as Summoned when they enter the battlefield; however, they don't count toward Objectives in which Creatures must be Cast. Hopefully this helps to clear up some of the confusion regarding this issue. 


  • rafalele
    rafalele Posts: 876 Critical Contributor
    Tombstone said:
    Hi everyone, Token Creatures do count as Summoned when they enter the battlefield; however, they don't count toward Objectives in which Creatures must be Cast. Hopefully this helps to clear up some of the confusion regarding this issue. 


    They are already counting toward objectives in Nodes Of Power green node. Also ebalmed creatures returning from graveyard matching their activated gems or coming from graveyard with rebirth or tokens created by supports. Any creature put in battlefield now is counting toward objectives.
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards

    Tombstone said:
    Hi everyone, Token Creatures do count as Summoned when they enter the battlefield; however, they don't count toward Objectives in which Creatures must be Cast. Hopefully this helps to clear up some of the confusion regarding this issue. 


    Quite the opposite. I've got no idea what works where and how now. Sometimes tokens count. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes only hard cast creatures count. Sometimes everything that enters the battlefield in any way does. For cast more and for cast fewer ; sometimes they behave the same, sometimes not.

    Getting imprisoned /frogged will now count against my "cast x or fewer"? I know you're not responsible for this, but could you relay the info that we're getting sick of this never-ending topic? There should be a differentiation between cast and summon that should be explained and used consequently. And every event, be it legacy or standard, should use the same wording if it requires the same processes.
  • Walker
    Walker Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    It seems ever way I get a creature on the board is considered summoning. How do I play creatures without summoning?
  • TheDude1
    TheDude1 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
    Brigby, if tokens (and graveyard returns, and stolen creatures, etc.) are all correctly counting as summon, can you at least agree that "Summon X or less" is a horrible objective to include, especially on a creature-oriented color like Green?

    If the rule on summon was changed to clarify/correct the inconsistency, can we also get changes on objectives to match the correct rule?
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    Walker said:
    It seems ever way I get a creature on the board is considered summoning. How do I play creatures without summoning?
    It appears to have reverted to the 2+ years old rule that any time a creature appears on your side it counts as a summon.  Tokens created from cards like Turn to Frog and Unexplained Disappearance count too.

    The only way to win is to either
    A) go creatureless or
    B ) win with only 1 or 2 creatures that are difficult to remove (hexproof usually works)
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Tombstone said:
    Hi everyone, Token Creatures do count as Summoned when they enter the battlefield; however, they don't count toward Objectives in which Creatures must be Cast. Hopefully this helps to clear up some of the confusion regarding this issue. 


    That's, uh, not how its working right now.
    Also, why change the code to count tokens as "summoned" if they aren't supposed to count for objectives?

    This is all very confusing and unnecessary.
  • nerdstrap
    nerdstrap Posts: 180 Tile Toppler
    Tombstone said:
    Hi everyone, Token Creatures do count as Summoned when they enter the battlefield; however, they don't count toward Objectives in which Creatures must be Cast. Hopefully this helps to clear up some of the confusion regarding this issue. 


    I appreciate you for commenting officially. I would like to point out that you provided the opposite of reassurance to the readers.

    An explanation of the bug fix for tokens not counting as summons would have been helpful. For almost a year, tokens have not counted in NOP green node, now they do. No explanation, no warning, nothing. Distrust, Doubt, Uncertainty, Chaos. 
  • James13
    James13 Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    Mburn7 said:
    Walker said:
    It seems ever way I get a creature on the board is considered summoning. How do I play creatures without summoning?
    It appears to have reverted to the 2+ years old rule that any time a creature appears on your side it counts as a summon.  Tokens created from cards like Turn to Frog and Unexplained Disappearance count too.

    The only way to win is to either
    A) go creatureless or
    B) win with only 1 or 2 creatures that are difficult to remove (hexproof usually works)
    Pray no one runs Dowsing dagger.
  • Magic:PQ Support Team
    Magic:PQ Support Team ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 3,442 Chairperson of the Boards
    Can you tell me, please, it is happening with which card of selesnya token deck?

    Thank you!
  • ArielSira
    ArielSira Posts: 520 Critical Contributor
    Oktagon_Daiane said:
    Can you tell me, please, it is happening with which card of selesnya token deck?

    Thank you!
    It's not the cards; the rules suddenly changed. Anything involving creatures (stealing, reanimating, fetch and put into play, creating tokens etc); suddenly they ALL count for the green node on NoP.

    Please find out what caused this before we get a coalition event.

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