Tokens now count as summons?!? [By Design]

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  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    *Merged similar threads together
  • arNero
    arNero Posts: 358 Mover and Shaker
    Oktagon_Daiane said:
    Can you tell me, please, it is happening with which card of selesnya token deck?

    Thank you!
    As ArielSira said, this is not a problem with specific card: I was playing Nissa Worldwaker and capable of producing no fewer than THREE types of tokens: March of the Multitudes lifelink tokens, Nissa's own Land tokens, and that 2/2 vigilant knight token from that sword whatever-it's-called-again. Please, please.... be more consistent. You've been flip-flopping with Cast and Summon for too long now, pick one word and STICK WITH IT. Sheesh....
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Oktagon_Daiane said:
    Can you tell me, please, it is happening with which card of selesnya token deck?

    Thank you!
    I think you're misunderstanding the situation.  Please read my above posts (there are 2, one of which you are tagged in) that try to explain what's going on.

    The short version is this:  Any time a creature appears on your side of the field it counts as a "summoned creature" for objective purposes.  This is something that was changed 2+ years ago because of how difficult and luck-based it made "Summon X or less creatures" objectives.  That fix has worked perfectly fine until the recent 3.2 update.

    If this was an intentional change, it should have been explained somewhere (and should be explained now)
    If this was an unintentional change, please fix it.
  • Furks
    Furks Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
    I agree with @ZW2007- the way it is now is correct and consistent with how paper magic works. What needs to be changed are the objectives themselves, where it says summon X, it should say cast x. 
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    I am adding my bump to @ZW2007-'s post.

    I don't care how you standardize the language and objectives.  I just want them to be consistent.

    In the future, though, maybe a give us a heads up that you're making a change?  I mean, that is what the patch notes are supposed to be for.
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    That's way better than the random answer on page x of thread y ! Now, the objectives just need to be adapted to the new definition :)
    The definitions could be added like other in game Infos, by a bold, clickable text.

  • ArielSira
    ArielSira Posts: 520 Critical Contributor
    Thank you Brigby and Daiane for a clear explanation!
  • Gun Bunny
    Gun Bunny Posts: 233 Tile Toppler
    Oktagon_Daiane said:
    Can you tell me, please, it is happening with which card of selesnya token deck?

    Thank you!
    March of the Multitudes
    Legion's Landing
    Queen's Commission
    Luminarch Ascension
    Divine Visitation
    Decree of Justice

    Ended a match with a creature less deck that had somehow summoned 52 creatures.

    And agreed with the other poster, tokens getting forced upon you with cards like:

    Turn to Frog
    Imprisoned in the Moon
    Transmogrifying Wand
    Dowsing Dagger
    Baffling End

    Are a tinykitty way to lose objective points.
  • Monkeynutts
    Monkeynutts Posts: 566 Critical Contributor
    @Oktagon_Daiane
    @Brigby

    During SOI the whole summoning creature token thing came about as some objectives were based on getting spirits / werewolves out when they were in limited supply, so people resorted to summoning them via spells etc.
    Your previous developer changed the rule so that tokens didn't count towards creature summoning totals, which was fine as by the time they did the chsnge SOI had matured and people had picked enough cards to get by and win objectives.
    Since 3.2 everything has reverted back to bwfore SOI.

    Any creature from anywhere that enters the battlefield under your control triggers a summoning addition to your objective total.

    The below are issues that have returned. THEY need to be removed.

    Tokens from spells or supports
    Tokens from planeswalker abilities
    Taking control of an opponents creatures.
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Oktagon_Daiane said:
    Hi Everyone,
    Thank you all for the ongoing discussion. I have talked to the team and basically the rules for Summon and Cast are:

    Summon: A card is summoned if it is placed on the battlefield from anywhere, including the cards that return from the library or cemetery.
    Cast:  A card is cast if it's played from your hand.
    , weil, then : rising tensions black and green node counts killing and reviving your creatures as "casting" (lily 4 DM first ability). This must be a bug.
  • rafalele
    rafalele Posts: 876 Critical Contributor
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    Oktagon_Daiane said:
    Hi Everyone,
    Thank you all for the ongoing discussion. I have talked to the team and basically the rules for Summon and Cast are:

    Summon: A card is summoned if it is placed on the battlefield from anywhere, including the cards that return from the library or cemetery.
    Cast:  A card is cast if it's played from your hand.
    , weil, then : rising tensions black and green node counts killing and reviving your creatures as "casting" (lily 4 DM first ability). This must be a bug.
    This should be a bug and not as designed, I hope so.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    Laeuftbeidir said:
    Oktagon_Daiane said:
    Hi Everyone,
    Thank you all for the ongoing discussion. I have talked to the team and basically the rules for Summon and Cast are:

    Summon: A card is summoned if it is placed on the battlefield from anywhere, including the cards that return from the library or cemetery.
    Cast:  A card is cast if it's played from your hand.
    , weil, then : rising tensions black and green node counts killing and reviving your creatures as "casting" (lily 4 DM first ability). This must be a bug.
    That's funny, I can confirm that tokens do not count for the "Cast" objective where they always have in the past.

    This sounds like a different bug related to how certain things now trigger spellcast abilities that did not before (like Muldrotha's return ability)
  • IM_CARLOS
    IM_CARLOS Posts: 640 Critical Contributor
    This objective is and was broken. Pre-Update:In some events token counts as summons (RT-B/G) and in other not (NOP green).

    Post-Update: they just changed, RT don't count and NOP count.

    ****... Do your math and make it consistent or just make different objectives. 
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    IM_CARLOS said:
    This objective is and was broken. Pre-Update:In some events token counts as summons (RT-B/G) and in other not (NOP green).

    Post-Update: they just changed, RT don't count and NOP count.

    tinykitty... Do your math and make it consistent or just make different objectives. 
    Well, the objective in RT says "Cast" while the objective in NoP says "Summon"
    I'd say those are working as described.
  • IM_CARLOS
    IM_CARLOS Posts: 640 Critical Contributor
    Mburn7 said:
    IM_CARLOS said:
    This objective is and was broken. Pre-Update:In some events token counts as summons (RT-B/G) and in other not (NOP green).

    Post-Update: they just changed, RT don't count and NOP count.

    tinykitty... Do your math and make it consistent or just make different objectives. 
    Well, the objective in RT says "Cast" while the objective in NoP says "Summon"
    I'd say those are working as described.
    Yes but it worked like i wrote. I always beat the objective from RT with Garruk Ghalta and loyality creatures before update. So before not correct, now correct. NOP vis versa. Consistent? No!

    Btw. In german, my game language it is the same saying in both objectives (RT, NOP). 
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mburn7 said:
    IM_CARLOS said:
    This objective is and was broken. Pre-Update:In some events token counts as summons (RT-B/G) and in other not (NOP green).

    Post-Update: they just changed, RT don't count and NOP count.

    tinykitty... Do your math and make it consistent or just make different objectives. 
    Well, the objective in RT says "Cast" while the objective in NoP says "Summon"
    I'd say those are working as described.

    So why would killing and returning count on the cast objective?
  • rafalele
    rafalele Posts: 876 Critical Contributor
    In spanish sometimes is written cast other summon and sumomn not always is the same. Just the new event says summon (in Spanish "Lanza") in third node, but should be written cast. 

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