What to prepare for the 300 LT Pull and when to do it

heybub

I'm a 4* player, and I am looking to move to 5*.  I"ve been hoarding (for ~10months now), and think I will have my 300 pulls in ~2 months.  I have all 4* on the roster but Dazzler.  I want to make sure that I am prepared with HP, ISO, etc. when I do the pulls, so my question to the forum, is "What do I need before I pull?"  I want to make sure I can roster all covers (5* and 4*) and be able to champ my newly aquired 5*s (and as many 4*'s as possible).

What will I need?
1) HP to make roster slots 
2) ISO to champ everyone
3) Anything else?

Current resources:
1)  1000 HP
2) 3.75 million ISO

Expected HP needed: I will need 3 roster spots for the latest legends 5*s, along with 4 more for additionally required 4*s (1 currently missing, and conservatively expect 3 more 4*'s to be released in the next 2 months. = 7k HP.

Now, I won't need all the HP and ISO before pulling, as champion rewards will net me a good amount.  How much HP and ISO should I expect from 4* champ rewards?

Besides HP, ISO, is there anything else that I am missing? 

And then finally, when do I pull?  This will really need to be answered in 2 months when the newest 5*s are there.

Thanks!

frederec

I know a lot of people can speak with more authority on statistics, but I can at least talk about my recent experience cracking my hoard when Loki left latest.  I had about 350 pulls, and when I was done I had fully covered all three 5*'s, had gotten around 10k HP and 50 more pulls in champ rewards.  I think I also got around half a million iso.

I went into this having all but a few 4*'s champed, and all of them rostered, so spending HP on rostering wasn't an issue.

Dormammu

Sounds to me like you already know what you need for HP/roster slots. It's not a hard calculation to make. As for ISO, if you want to champ three 5-stars from base you'll need a couple of million.

As for when to do it... that's the real pickle. Ideally it's when there's a meta character present. There's one in there right now in the form of Kitty Pryde. Unfortunately she's the next to leave and Cable/Kingpin aren't very good, especially if they are going to be among your first three 5-stars. So if you're not going to pull for Kitty, you'll have a wait ahead of you waiting for Cable/Kingpin to clear out of there and see what the latest-3 landscape looks like after that.

Quebbster

Around 2 million ISO should be enough to champ three fivestars. With saved covers, there's no real need to champ the fourstars, but the more champ rewards you can get the better.

Kingpin looks like a dud fivestar so you should probably wait until he is out to pull. Doom looks OK, he is not top tier but for a beginning fivestar roster I think he is good enough - if the other Latest fivestars are good too at least. You will probably need to evaluate upcoming fivestars carefully and consider who is worth busting a hoard for.

AardvarkPepper

heybub said:

I'm a 4* player, and I am looking to move to 5*.  I"ve been hoarding (for ~10months now), and think I will have my 300 pulls in ~2 months.

300 is low without swaps.  If you use the CP/LL you get and put it right back in that's better but imo it's still a bit chancy - considering the time investment &c.

IMO if you're a spender and willing to buy in (whether Heroes for Hire later, or otherwise) 300's a good point.

If not a spender, maybe better to wait, especially if the featured 5*s aren't particularly good.  Having good 5*s makes a big difference to just having whatever 5*s.

heybub said:

Now, I won't need all the HP and ISO before pulling, as champion rewards will net me a good amount.  How much HP and ISO should I expect from 4* champ rewards?

http://marvelpuzzlequest.wikia.com/wiki/Champion

So you'll get about 257 4*s, which for champ rewards works out to around 25 LL tokens, some 5* feeders, 10,000 HP, 625 CP, 300,000 odd iso - IF your full roster of 4*s are championed.

But you will not get those numbers, not quite.  Because that assumes you're applying covers to champions, and you may not have 4* champions as even if you have 13 covers on a particular 4*, you may lack the iso.  As well, some of your 4*s may not even be 13-covered.

Even were your 4*s all championed, there's some difference in rewards depending on what level the 4*s at when another cover's applied.  So - that's a really very very rough estimate, even though prizes are fairly well distributed.

As to the iso you'll net, 300,000 iso isn't enough to even bring a single 4* from 70 to champion.  So I would not count too much on the iso there.

heybub

heybub said:

I'm a 4* player, and I am looking to move to 5*.  I"ve been hoarding (for ~10months now), and think I will have my 300 pulls in ~2 months. 

300 is low without swaps.  If you use the CP/LL you get and put it right back in that's better but imo it's still a bit chancy - considering the time investment &c.

There are no more swaps?  So, what is the new agreed upon target?  350 pulls? 400 pulls?  I might just end up pulling with 300 and try my luck...I mean, ****, I've been saving for a year of my life, and this game is getting quite stale.  Plus I usually only play PVE, so not having 3 monster 5* champs wouldn't matter much.

bbigler

I have some questions for you: how many LL pulls do you have right now? How many do you get per week, on average? How many 4* champs do you have? Is your gamependium roster up to date? Do you have any Kitty covers? Do you never play PVP? What PVE SCL do you play?

My general advice without knowing these answers is: you need 578K ISO to champ a 5*, so 3 would be 1.734 million. But you would get Shield Level ISO rewards from applying hundreds of covers, so 1.5 million ISO is enough. 

300 pulls is not enough, IMO. Even 350 is risky, unless you have a lot of 4* champs to give you an extra 30 pulls. But that's assuming you need to cover everyone in one shot, which you don't. You could simply continue to open Latest afterward. In that case, your starting hoard doesn't need to be as big. The recommended amount is dependent on your LL rate per week. 

If all you care about is PVE, then you may be better off opening now to get Kitty, who will greatly improve your PVE performance, but it's risky as you may not get enough covers for her. If you're on the verge of boredom and quitting, then you may not last until Kingpin leaves latest, so in that case, open now. 

heybub

bbigler said:

I have some questions for you: how many LL pulls do you have right now? How many do you get per week, on average? How many 4* champs do you have? Is your gamependium roster up to date? Do you have any Kitty covers? Do you never play PVP? What PVE SCL do you play?

1) I have 141 LTs & 2917CP ~ 257 pulls
2) I get ~ 6/week (257/10months*(12months/52weeks)
3) i have 20 champed 4*s (6 more fully covered): Medusa (lvl 279), Nick Fury, Peggy, Falcap, Cyclops, IMHB, Nova, XFW, Carol, Gamora, Riri, Grocket, Thor, Coulson, XFDP, Vulture, IM,  Big Pun, C&D , and star lord (lvl 270) champed.  (Gwenpool, Prof X, DD, IW, Mr Fantastic, SW fully covered)
4) Gamependium is NOT up to date
5) No Kitty Covers
6) I sometimes do play PVP for a particular cover (if I can get that high).  I find it takes me ~40 wins to make the points for the 4*, so it really is a grind for me right now.
7) PVE is usually lvl 7, unless I have the 5*, then lvl 9.

I would like to be a boss in PVP for once, even if it's only for a short while.  I figure 3 5* champs that are good will do that for me (maybe?).  I am not at the point of giving up, but I am getting tired of sitting around.  I could wait a bit longer, but 350 would take me 15 more weeks, so like 4 more months....I might be able to hang on till then, but no guarantees (if a killer 5* becomes available in that time - I don't want to blow 300 pulls on mediocre 5*s, so I would wait until they are good).

Dormammu

heybub said:

I would like to be a boss in PVP for once, even if it's only for a short while.  I figure 3 5* champs that are good will do that for me (maybe?).

If this is your entire motivation for champing 5-stars, you're going to be greatly disappointed. The transition into 5-star PvP play is hell. Much harder than any other tier transition (and the 4-star transition ain't easy). If you want an easier time in PvP you will be much better served staying in the 4-star tier and continuing to champ them. Grow your 5s organically and soft cap them at 330-360 so they don't affect your MMR. When you have the bulk of the 70 4-stars champed, you always have the boosted characters and PvP is easier than any other point of the game.

(That doesn't mean you can't cash in your hoard.)

AardvarkPepper

heybub said:

There are no more swaps?  So, what is the new agreed upon target?  350 pulls? 400 pulls?  I might just end up pulling with 300 and try my luck...I mean, tinykitty, I've been saving for a year of my life, and this game is getting quite stale.  Plus I usually only play PVE, so not having 3 monster 5* champs wouldn't matter much.

No more swaps.  They went when saved covers were introduced.

I'm personally going for 500.  Someone stated that was the number (or thereabouts) for a 99% chance of three 13-cover 5*s.  (I'm also going to wait for moderately synergistic characters, and at least one character that goes well with my current collection).

"I've been saving for a year . . . game is getting quite stale"

WELCOME TO MPQ

"I figure 3 5* champs that are good will do that for me (maybe?)"

heybub said:

I would like to be a boss in PVP for once, even if it's only for a short while.  I figure 3 5* champs that are good will do that for me (maybe?).

Nah.  Not just "good" but fairly spectacular, and on basis of current trends I'd expect any really decent 5* (in terms of being able to place with PvP) to only be in rotation in Latest Legendaries while there are also two not so decent 5*s.

So if you want to be a kinda boss, maybe, but a boss boss?  I'd guess you'd have to hoard a good bit more.

As to being a boss in general - well in my opinion you'd need to get in on some of the PvP collusion groups and play some politics.

"whaaat aardvark"

WELCOME TO MPQ

heybub

Dormammu said:

If this is your entire motivation for champing 5-stars, you're going to be greatly disappointed. The transition into 5-star PvP play is hell. Much harder than any other tier transition (and the 4-star transition ain't easy). If you want an easier time in PvP you will be much better served staying in the 4-star tier and continuing to champ them. Grow your 5s organically and soft cap them at 330-360 so they don't affect your MMR. When you have the bulk of the 70 4-stars champed, you always have the boosted characters and PvP is easier than any other point of the game.

(That doesn't mean you can't cash in your hoard.)

Expectations fully curbed.  You knocked me off my pedestal, but thankfully the concrete below broke my fall.  So I won't be a boss in PVP.  That's OK.  I can live with that.  I played last night and remembered why I **** hate PVP (will save for another post).  I've been doing much better in PVP as of late since I had Vulture/Peggy champed last time, and Grocket champed this time.  Was able to get to 900 both times, but it did take some effort.  So it sounds like if I want to keep doing that, stay in 4* land (5*s ~lvl330).  Fully covered 5*s at lvl 330 in PVE should still be pretty useful, no?  I mean I like the idea of PVP, and sometimes the 4*s seem more easily obtainable than PVE.

I guess fundamentally, I would like to start to make the 5* transition.  I am full on in 4* land, and would like to move on.  Ideally, I would like some champed 5*s (or atleast fully covered), and I don't see that happening with pull as I go, so I will continue to hoard until I have a reasonable chance at this (300+ pulls).  With standard Legendary Tokens, I will pull some old 5*s (that I would be fine with: OML, SS, GG,HE), but there is no way I would be able to champ any of them since I only get them 6-7 covers maybe and the pool is continuously being diluted.  The only way is to hoard.

If I only need 1.5mil to champ 3 5*s, and champed 4*s will help me in PVP, should I start champing my fully covered 4*s?  Or should I wait until I cash in the hoard and then champ the best 4*s?  After this round of PVP, I see how awesome Rogue and Chavez are, so I would want to champ them when possible.

bbigler

heybub said:

1) I have 141 LTs & 2917CP ~ 257 pulls
2) I get ~ 6/week (257/10months*(12months/52weeks)
3) i have 20 champed 4*s (6 more fully covered): Medusa (lvl 279), Nick Fury, Peggy, Falcap, Cyclops, IMHB, Nova, XFW, Carol, Gamora, Riri, Grocket, Thor, Coulson, XFDP, Vulture, IM,  Big Pun, C&D , and star lord (lvl 270) champed.  (Gwenpool, Prof X, DD, IW, Mr Fantastic, SW fully covered)
4) Gamependium is NOT up to date
5) No Kitty Covers
6) I sometimes do play PVP for a particular cover (if I can get that high).  I find it takes me ~40 wins to make the points for the 4*, so it really is a grind for me right now.
7) PVE is usually lvl 7, unless I have the 5*, then lvl 9.

I would like to be a boss in PVP for once, even if it's only for a short while.  I figure 3 5* champs that are good will do that for me (maybe?).  I am not at the point of giving up, but I am getting tired of sitting around.  I could wait a bit longer, but 350 would take me 15 more weeks, so like 4 more months....I might be able to hang on till then, but no guarantees (if a killer 5* becomes available in that time - I don't want to blow 300 pulls on mediocre 5*s, so I would wait until they are good).

If you want to be competitive in PVP, that's doable, but being a PVP Boss takes top tier 5*s and battle chat rooms for coordinated climbing.  I'm surprised your LL rate per week is only 6. You could get 10 - 12 per week.  I'm predicting Kitty will leave Latest on 2/18, but I could be wrong. By then you should have 280 pulls. Here are some options for you:

1) If you can increase your LL rate per week to 10+, then you could open the hoard when Doom enters and continue to pull going forward. With another 70 pulls during the next 6 weeks, you'll have a good chance of champing all 3 before Cable leaves. Then you could enter 5* PVP with Cable and Doom. 

2) Keep hoarding at your current rate until Cable leaves (March/April) and an unknown 5* enters (maybe Marvel?). You should have around 315 pulls by then.  After opening the hoard, you then continue to open for the next 6 - 12 weeks to champ Doom and the next 5*. Kingpin may not get champed, but that's OK. You then enter 5* PVP with Doom and the next unknown 5*.

3) You keep hoarding until Kingpin leaves (May) and then open the hoard and hopefully champ all 3 immediately. Afterwards, you should start hoarding again. This option takes the most patience. 

Whichever option you choose, you'll have plenty of time to save HP for roster slots and ISO for champing. I think Cable is mid-tier, usable but not great. I consider Doom to be upper mid-tier. So, perhaps your happy medium is option 2.

Dormammu

heybub said:

I guess fundamentally, I would like to start to make the 5* transition.  I am full on in 4* land, and would like to move on.  Ideally, I would like some champed 5*s (or atleast fully covered), and I don't see that happening with pull as I go, so I will continue to hoard until I have a reasonable chance at this (300+ pulls).  

You're just over a quarter into the 4-star tier with 20 champs. You've barely begun to explore the most robust and strategically diverse phase of the game. You've gotten a taste of what you can accomplish in PvP with boosted 4-star champs. You have a lot to do yet.

I know 5-stars seem like the big-boys club and the tier everyone should stride for. And that's absolutely true. But trust me when I tell you that pushing for that too soon will make for a horrible experience. I am not a lone voice in this. This story has been told in these forums over and over.

Consider this about transitioning to the 5-star tier:

FIRST: 4-stars feed 5-stars. In order to smoothen the transition, having a large stable of 4-star champs to start getting you 5-star covers is going to help. You know how you've received a bunch of 4-star covers from 3-star champ rewards, and how that's helped you get where you are now? Same principle.

SECOND: 4-stars are the backbone of your transition to 5-star play. Just as you still leaned on your champed 3-stars when transitioning to the 4-star tier, champed and boosted 4-stars are still very much useful to 5-star players. The more you have the easier your transition will be.

You can still hoard to 300-350 pulls (or however much you want to obtain) and pull out of latest-3 when you feel the time is right. This will give you a fun jump of 4-star champ rewards and net you fully-covered 5-stars. But with saved covers, you don't have to champ those 5-stars right away. You can soft-cap them and still very much enjoy them and use them right alongside your 4-star roster.

Please know, I'm just outlining one possible path - a path I wish I had chosen to take. Because as soon as you champ a 5-star (or three) there is no going back.

heybub

Dormammu said:

heybub said:

I guess fundamentally, I would like to start to make the 5* transition.  I am full on in 4* land, and would like to move on.  Ideally, I would like some champed 5*s (or atleast fully covered), and I don't see that happening with pull as I go, so I will continue to hoard until I have a reasonable chance at this (300+ pulls).  

You're just over a quarter into the 4-star tier with 20 champs. You've barely begun to explore the most robust and strategically diverse phase of the game. You've gotten a taste of what you can accomplish in PvP with boosted 4-star champs. You have a lot to do yet.

I know 5-stars seem like the big-boys club and the tier everyone should stride for. And that's absolutely true. But trust me when I tell you that pushing for that too soon will make for a horrible experience. I am not a lone voice in this. This story has been told in these forums over and over.

Consider this about transitioning to the 5-star tier:

FIRST: 4-stars feed 5-stars. In order to smoothen the transition, having a large stable of 4-star champs to start getting you 5-star covers is going to help. You know how you've received a bunch of 4-star covers from 3-star champ rewards, and how that's helped you get where you are now? Same principle.

SECOND: 4-stars are the backbone of your transition to 5-star play. Just as you still leaned on your champed 3-stars when transitioning to the 4-star tier, champed and boosted 4-stars are still very much useful to 5-star players. The more you have the easier your transition will be.

You can still hoard to 300-350 pulls (or however much you want to obtain) and pull out of latest-3 when you feel the time is right. This will give you a fun jump of 4-star champ rewards and net you fully-covered 5-stars. But with saved covers, you don't have to champ those 5-stars right away. You can soft-cap them and still very much enjoy them and use them right alongside your 4-star roster.

Please know, I'm just outlining one possible path - a path I wish I had chosen to take. Because as soon as you champ a 5-star (or three) there is no going back.

Thanks for the advice.  What I am taking away from this is:
1) Go ahead and pull when ready
2) Don't champ 5*s, because I will enter 5* hell and be even more miserable than now
3) Rely on 4*s and champ more of them as this will help with a more organic 5* transition.

Ok, sounds good.  When I find 3 good 5*s (may wait till after Cable leaves), I will pull and champ my good 4*s from the covers that I get.  I will hopefully get 3 max covered 5*s, which I will not champ, until I am ready to go into 5* land...when will I know when that is?

Thanks for all the helpful comments.  I have learned a lot.

BlackBoltRocks

heybub said:

Thanks for the advice.  What I am taking away from this is:
1) Go ahead and pull when ready
2) Don't champ 5*s, because I will enter 5* hell and be even more miserable than now
3) Rely on 4*s and champ more of them as this will help with a more organic 5* transition.

Ok, sounds good.  When I find 3 good 5*s (may wait till after Cable leaves), I will pull and champ my good 4*s from the covers that I get.  I will hopefully get 3 max covered 5*s, which I will not champ, until I am ready to go into 5* land...when will I know when that is?

Thanks for all the helpful comments.  I have learned a lot.

I'll address those that I bolded.

Well...I wouldn't say "don't champ 5*". Rather, champ then when you have a solid group of champed 4*, and you're ready for the 5* PvP. Champed 5* also help you breeze through PvE.

Wait until Fatpin leaves. Don't waste your resources on him. Wait for a Latest trio of Doom/Carol/Endgame at the very least, which should be in early May.

Variety of factors. When 4* land becomes stale, when you're ready for faster clears in PvE, etc etc. Truth be told, there is no strict definition on when someone is ready to go into 5* land. There are definitely some helpful guidelines to use: first, as I've mentioned, when you have a solid group of 4* champed. Second, when you have a steady income of iso, HP, CP and LT that can maintain you in 5* land. Third, look at the 5* you have on hand that you can champ. For example, someone who only has Wasp, Banner, and Fatpin at 13 covers is definitely not ready for 5* PvP (PvE is a slightly different story). Ultimately, it's your game. If you ever want to make the jump, do it when you feel you're ready for it and when you want to, not solely because of the advice you've been given. Do whatever makes the game enjoyable for you, while at the same time not making it more tedious than it already is.

Finally, if you don't want to affect your PvP MMR, level your 5* to 360 max.

bbigler

You can level up 5*s to at least 375 without affecting your MMR because boosted champed 4*s are 370+. That's a good way to try out your 5*s before champing them. 

Daredevil217

You are getting some great advice in here. If your goal is to be a PvP boss, jumping to 5* land alone won’t do that. You’ll just get hit by a bunch of Thokoye and Kitty teams, and find it a slog with your Fisk/Cable/Doom trio. It might even be harder to climb for you in 5* land. 

My my suggestion is to start champing 4s with all that iso. Keep 1.7 million aside so you can insta-champ fives if you change your mind. But all the rest of your iso should go into top tier 4s. As a 4* player I was able to consistently hit T5-T10 PVE (CL8) and 900 PVP. So you can do quite well with 4*s. There is so much fun and variety in 4* land especially if you try and make fun teams that highlight the strengths of your newest champed characters. 

Once you go to the 5* tier there’s no going back. I waited until I had all fours champed to transition (not suggesting you do this). Because of that, I could probably keep up with the release schedule as all 4s give champ rewards to help resource future fives. This means I’ll get an influx of new characters and the game will be less stale. 

If you spend all your resources and jump with only a quarter of the 4* tier champed, then you will be waiting a VERY long time to get another three 5* characters. Because rather than getting CP and LTs from your 4s you’ll just be accruing iso debt. 

I’d encourage you to love where you’re at. The idea of not leveling 5* is a good one. So you can build that foundation to propel you and sustain you in the next tier. I mean I went extreme and did that for like 1700 days (really really loved the 4* tier), and again, not suggesting you do that. 

If you really really are bored and don’t think new 4s can cure that boredom, I would implore you to wait until Kingpin leaves at a minimum. He’s pretty much dead weight. 

TPF Alexis

I champed my first 5* recently, and it's been a good experience, but I have almost the entire 4* tier already champed (and most of the rest of it just waiting on ISO). If I'd somehow managed to champ a 5* back a year or so ago when I was at a roughly similar point to you, I'm pretty sure it would not have been fun.

Warbringa

If you are more of a PvE player....champ 5*, even mid-tier characters, as they make PvE go way faster and/or allow you to compete in higher SCL for more rewards.  If PvP is important to you, listen to the advice above as to when to make that decision of entering 5* land because it will really alter your PvP experience if you don't have decent 5* to use.  I would wait until Cable and KP leave tokens if you are wanting to get into 5* meta for PvP.  Doom looks ok, not top tier as of right now, but quite functional.  

froggerjohn

Something else to add to this, especially if you're worried about the game becoming 'stale'.

Once you champ a set of 3 5*s, those are going to be the only three characters you use for a long time to come. So while the short term results will be a new team to play with, it's ultimately a reduction in diversity.

Dormammu's excellent post about the 4* tier being the most strategically diverse, is right on point. I'm well behind where you're at, but already finding interesting combinations of characters to play with, and starting to see how different characters excel against different opponents. The boosted list often opens up different possibilities, and that facet continues to grow as you develop more 4* champs.

Sounds like you've already decided to soft-cap your 5*s, and I concur that this is likely to serve you well.

ThaRoadWarrior

As someone who just champed a single mid-tier 5*, I can tell you that the advice you're hearing above is real. PVE is do-able at SCL9 now, but PVP is my Ghost Rider + a boosted 4* + whoever you're saddled with in the middle, and I don't seem to have a float point at all anymore. When I was a 4* player with half the tier champed, I could float at a few different points and push to 900 in nearly any event I wanted to without shielding. I'm still trying to figure out what the new normal is for PVP.