Sarkhan Unbroken: Official Thread

FindingHeart8

As insane as this planeswalker will be in legacy, I don't think it's the best planeswalker for standard.  Red is pretty weak right now, so he's basically a blue/green planeswalker with perks.

Now if it was Blue/Green/Black  or Blue/Green/White then I'd be worried.  

Tilwin90

The most bonkers part of all tri colored walkers in a dual colored heaven environment in MTGPQ (such as ravnica) is that short of one color combination they can play all multicolored cards.

Sarkhan is denied access to orzhov cards while you can't play selesnyan goodies in bolas. I wonder how bonkers orzhov will be... It's my favorite guild after all. 

Also in terms of cards, Sarkhan vs Bolas is the question of black vs green. Funny enough they both get blue which is bonkers enough.

In legacy imho rishksex is superior to anything black could offer. In standard however we are looking at more various options. Black removal is undeniably strong and green has some of the best creature fetch selection cards. Unfortunately ramp in standard is dubious right now so is green better than black?

From another perspective I don't play as much Kiora as I used to and to be honest the red addition to her is not THAT useful. 

With all this being said the pure option of a tricolored walker is super powerful as it is so I am not trying to undermine his usefulness.

Laeuftbeidir

FindingHeart8 said:

As insane as this planeswalker will be in legacy, I don't think it's the best planeswalker for standard.  Red is pretty weak right now, so he's basically a blue/green planeswalker with perks.

Now if it was Blue/Green/Black  or Blue/Green/White then I'd be worried.  

Red is weak..mono red - maybe, compared to Amonkhet. But red ss combo piece for blue is stronger than ever.II made a deck in his colors for karn a while ago. This is an infinite loop candidate even in standard.

Mburn7

FindingHeart8 said:

As insane as this planeswalker will be in legacy, I don't think it's the best planeswalker for standard.  Red is pretty weak right now, so he's basically a blue/green planeswalker with perks.

Now if it was Blue/Green/Black  or Blue/Green/White then I'd be worried.  

That's my best guess for why we didn't get Tamiyo.  UGW would be the most ludicrous color combo ever.

As for his Standard usefulness, remember Kiora is still one of the best walkers out there, and the power boost from giving her "perks" really should not be understated (although I'm looking at him as more of a Samut with more options, which is really really terrifying to think about).  He's going to be a powerhouse in Standard, and that's not even thinking of all the special shenanigans.  Using his ult to drop 3 Gaias is going to end most games outright anyway.

Tilwin90

Oh wow you guys are right.
He can be weaker than Kiora as he allows only 7 spells compared to her 8,but you can still build Creatureless when compared to samut. Truth be told I have a hard time finding any use for the future domri unless he ends up completely bonkers. 

Gunmix25

Theros said:

I'm really in love with this sharkan. His stats makes spending on him justified or win-win.
Buying this PW and have it nerfed later would be irresponsible. That would imply they haven't learned from the lotus bait incident. I think they know what they are doing; they're not going to tarnish confidence in buying their products.

Lotus bait? I dunno why this POV persists. Players were posting left and right that lotus was an auto include ... something that caught Oktagon's eye and they made the change. Many embraced it and many like myself and you disagreed with the decision because Lotus, as good as it was, was ballooned up in appearances by those who didn't even have the card.  ultimately having Oktagon alter it. 

The issue is reccurring here about S3. 
The PW isn't even out yet and players appear to be making snap opinions without gameplay. S3's ultimate is nice... but worthless from the AI perspective.  If there is a full hand,  it can't fetch.  Same goes for manual control.  You have to exile 3 cards to make room for the maxed level 60 ultimate. Leaving you 3 cards to use that need mana.... something to think on. 

arNero

Mburn7 said:

arNero said:

That measly 1st ability is way offset by the third. And being a 3c with Bolas1's mana gain and pretty decent health, yeah, I guess I agree with the doomsayers who are saying this guy is bloody broken.

Did they not learn the lesson from the two Bolases that having more colors in this game is an ADVANTAGE and not a DETRIMENT? -_- This isn't paper Magic for crying out loud...

I'm not understanding your point.  Of course they know more colors make a walker better here, that's why they are so much more expensive to purchase (cash or crystals) and level up.  What, should they only design weak stuff that nobody will want to use?

And as for the abilities, of course the third ability is way more powerful than the first, that's how it is supposed to work.  The third is ridiculous as well, of course, but it isn't the craziest we've seen.

Well, name me monocolor planeswalkers in this game who actually make any impact whatsoever, and then tell me why nobody plays the rest of the monocolors.

Okay, so you're saying that multicolors are more expensive because they are stronger. That's the thing: They are by default already stronger due to their combo potential alone; giving them massive HP reserve or cheaper abilities or better mana gains just worsens the matter.

And when I said the 1st ability being offset by 3rd, what I meant is that I don't get any incentive to activate his 1st ability, but if I were to play him, I very likely will just try to wait out until I can fire his ultimate ASAP (like in some planeswalkers where I don't bother playing with all their abilities even if all of them can be used; for example, I rarely use Kiora's ultimate, or I rarely use Worldwaker Nissa's ultimate, or for some planeswalkers, I always race to their ultimate ASAP such as Vraska 1 unless her other abilities are needed). That's why I said that; to repeat, I figure I probably will test-play him by racing to ults as often as I can, although I know that's not always a good idea.

Stormcrow

Like....I completely understand the perspective that the number of colors a PW has access to should be balanced by the strength of their abilities. But, facts are pesky things, and the fact is that's literally never been how either Hibernum or Oktagon has balanced planeswalkers. Kiora was the very first dual-colored PW and her abilities blew every other PW out of the water at the time, and the disconnect between number of colors and strength of abilities has continued on unabated from that point.

The way that the devs tend to "balance" multicolored PWs (insofar as they actually do, but look, power creep is real people) is their mana gains (and rune costs to level them, I guess, but that's a discussion for another time). That's why the strongest mono-color PWs - the ones that actually have a significant impact on the game - are mainly Koth and Elspeth, who both have huuuuge gains in their single color. Meanwhile, Sarkhan here doesn't do any better than +3 in any color and has a relatively unimpressive net +7 in gains total. He's a little Karn-like with his temp mana-gain-boosting on his first ability but honestly his first ability is still his most underwhelming. Overall his mana gains are nothing to write home about which makes him pretty consistent with the other tri-color/colorless PWs.

Now you may not like that method of balancing multi-color PWs, and you certainly may disagree that weak mana gains are sufficient to actually keep tri-color PWs balanced, but the fact is that's always been how they've balanced them, whereas nerfing their abilities because of how many colors they can access is a pie-in-the-sky dream that dates back to Kiora's release and has never actually happened. The game has survived all of the others and it'll survive this guy, too.

NinjaE

When is this being made available?

Gunmix25

FindingHeart8 said:

As insane as this planeswalker will be in legacy, I don't think it's the best planeswalker for standard.  Red is pretty weak right now, so he's basically a blue/green planeswalker with perks.

Now if it was Blue/Green/Black  or Blue/Green/White then I'd be worried.  

Pretty much what I've been saying too . He's no more threatening than B1 or B2 or Karn in standard.  Legacy on the other hand... he will be nuts. But what PW isn't nuts in legacy?

Gunmix25

Mburn7 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

As insane as this planeswalker will be in legacy, I don't think it's the best planeswalker for standard.  Red is pretty weak right now, so he's basically a blue/green planeswalker with perks.

Now if it was Blue/Green/Black  or Blue/Green/White then I'd be worried.  

That's my best guess for why we didn't get Tamiyo.  UGW would be the most ludicrous color combo ever.

As for his Standard usefulness, remember Kiora is still one of the best walkers out there, and the power boost from giving her "perks" really should not be understated (although I'm looking at him as more of a Samut with more options, which is really really terrifying to think about).  He's going to be a powerhouse in Standard, and that's not even thinking of all the special shenanigans.  Using his ult to drop 3 Gaias is going to end most games outright anyway.

Are you talking about the perspective of a player playing 3 GRs or the AI playing 3 GRs?

The reason I ask is that the AI is notorious for keeping a full hand.  Making it likely he'll only pull 1 GR when he fires his Ult. 

Mburn7

Gunmix25 said:

Mburn7 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

As insane as this planeswalker will be in legacy, I don't think it's the best planeswalker for standard.  Red is pretty weak right now, so he's basically a blue/green planeswalker with perks.

Now if it was Blue/Green/Black  or Blue/Green/White then I'd be worried.  

That's my best guess for why we didn't get Tamiyo.  UGW would be the most ludicrous color combo ever.

As for his Standard usefulness, remember Kiora is still one of the best walkers out there, and the power boost from giving her "perks" really should not be understated (although I'm looking at him as more of a Samut with more options, which is really really terrifying to think about).  He's going to be a powerhouse in Standard, and that's not even thinking of all the special shenanigans.  Using his ult to drop 3 Gaias is going to end most games outright anyway.

Are you talking about the perspective of a player playing 3 GRs or the AI playing 3 GRs?

The reason I ask is that the AI is notorious for keeping a full hand.  Making it likely he'll only pull 1 GR when he fires his Ult. 

I'm speaking from the player side.  With the new randomized AI, though, it is definitely possible that we see Greg pull something like this too (although it will probably be a rare occurrence)

Either way, that ability will end games.

Gunmix25

Mburn7 said:

Gunmix25 said:

Mburn7 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

As insane as this planeswalker will be in legacy, I don't think it's the best planeswalker for standard.  Red is pretty weak right now, so he's basically a blue/green planeswalker with perks.

Now if it was Blue/Green/Black  or Blue/Green/White then I'd be worried.  

That's my best guess for why we didn't get Tamiyo.  UGW would be the most ludicrous color combo ever.

As for his Standard usefulness, remember Kiora is still one of the best walkers out there, and the power boost from giving her "perks" really should not be understated (although I'm looking at him as more of a Samut with more options, which is really really terrifying to think about).  He's going to be a powerhouse in Standard, and that's not even thinking of all the special shenanigans.  Using his ult to drop 3 Gaias is going to end most games outright anyway.

Are you talking about the perspective of a player playing 3 GRs or the AI playing 3 GRs?

The reason I ask is that the AI is notorious for keeping a full hand.  Making it likely he'll only pull 1 GR when he fires his Ult. 

I'm speaking from the player side.  With the new randomized AI, though, it is definitely possible that we see Greg pull something like this too (although it will probably be a rare occurrence)

Either way, that ability will end games.

Eh, on the receiving end  it can if you're not prepared. if I see green I know GR is likely to be in that build. So I sideboard cards to account for it. Been a long time since I've lost due to GR and in many of those cases it's because RNGesus hated me for swaps. Lol. But from the player perspective... yeah that is going to be nuts. But I'm already doing 1 turn kills with N4 using trostani.  Point being S3 isn't the only PW that can end games quickly. Power creep in this game is getting so bad that I honestly have no idea how new players are going to ever catch up to old farts like you and I. Although I suspect this new profile leveling thing is part of the answer... 

greenmeanie

Current run in legacy.  Heavy on mythics and rares.  

Creatures

Ghalta, Primal Hunger
Borborygmus
Etali, Primal Storm

Spells

Nissa's Renewal
Day's Undoing
Deathsprout
Scapeshift

Supports
Sandwurm Convergence
Storm the Vault
Rupture Spire

Basically want Mana Cascade asap.  Get storm out further that to get to S3 utl ability.  Sandwurm is there for fliers.  Death and scape is to get rupture out.  

morgue427

to bring back a dead topic it seems the new standard has hit him pretty hard, it is possible but far harder than it was to get his 3rd ability available fast short of lucky cascades,(not that that hasnt been the case all along) but mostly just gem changers to work with now slows him down considerably. He is still a terror in legacy but standard has him in the penalty box pretty hard for now

greenmeanie

I agree that the current standard hit him hard but he is still a beast.  I hit most speed objectives at a 80 percent clip still.  Occasionally I still get a turn 3 kill.  

jtwood

morgue427 said:

to bring back a dead topic it seems the new standard has hit him pretty hard, it is possible but far harder than it was to get his 3rd ability available fast short of lucky cascades,(not that that hasnt been the case all along) but mostly just gem changers to work with now slows him down considerably. He is still a terror in legacy but standard has him in the penalty box pretty hard for now

If you mean that we don't see him in events quite as often, yes, but he's still really disgusting and tough and tier 1. It would take some pretty impressive metagame development for this dude to not be a primary option.