Change the Vaults

zeroswitch

pfarewell said:

I would like to see them create a regularly rotating classics store. Select 3 5* classic covers and 12 classic four star covers. Even if the price is set 25 cp, I think players would chase covers they need. This could help with the dilution problem. 

I think that this, at the very least, can and should be implemented.  They did so on the anniversary, and it was great.   Not as sweeping a solution as the OP proposes (which still may be necessary), but at least it's a short-term solution.

DAZ0273

jamesh said:

It's a mistake to think of those placement and alliance covers as things that anyone can get though.  It's not simply a matter of improving your roster to get those prizes: you need to overtake the players who are currently taking them (or wait for them to get bored of the game).

And the alliance prizes are limited to 2000 players total (100 alliances with at most 20 players each).  So you'd need to either switch alliances or push one of those other alliances out of placement.

This is exactly right. MPQ has an already established hierarchy when it comes to placement. When players lower down in the pecking order attempt to try and subvert it, they usually have to resort to alternative measures to do so (Tapping, bracket sniping, etc) when competing against others seeking the same prize. Let's also consider that award of 4* covers for lower placement only increases the higher SCL you go. If your roster can't handle SCL9 then having more 4* covers available from placement doesn't help you in the slightest. SCL7 is NOT filled with 3-4* transitioners only, there are plenty of 5* players in there who deem it a better return on their playing time. High end players playing down in lower SCL was exactly the cause of there being a limit put on PVP.

It is then even worth considering what "casual" really looks like for even obtaining 4* Progression covers. Hitting 900 points in PVP can be difficult but you still have the option of 40 wins. However, that is still a considerable amount of effort and it is unlikely as a 3* player that you'll be able to cruise to that total against all 2* teams.

So the only one I would agree with that truly equals "casual" would be the PvE cover which you can get without needing to complete every node as long as you play a certain amount every day. That still translates probably into an hour or so. Every day. Every event.

bluewolf

HoundofShadow said:

Let's work backwards on the dilution problem:


2) How long do you expect to champ all the 5* for a new player who starts now without spending money?




If the players could agree on a realistic expectation, then the solution for dilution will naturally flow.

I just wanted to highlight this one question and point out that your answer had darned well better be "NEVER".  Assuming you mean all the 5's in game.  A new player will NEVER, without spending or without a massive overhaul in reward design, champ all the 5's in the game.  (Nor should they try to, since most are just mediocre at best and won't do anything to help your game much anyway.)  But let's consider the possible avenues to gather covers.

My calcuation is that you currently need 338 5* covers, perfectly distributed, to cover all the Classic 5's in game.  Using the Classic store would require about 47,320 CP to get enough pulls right now to maybe make that happen.  Which translates into about $33,800 in buy clubs.  Put a different way, it would cost 3,640 CP to get one cover of each 5 in Classics if you achieved perfect distribution and the advertised pull rate.

Even if you somehow saved up a bunch of CP for a new release store, you should assume at minimum 525 CP per missing cover for someone that shows up in there.  (Say you only need 7 covers; that's 3,675 CP.)  And you could focus on a feeder and get 6 covers for someone with bonus, but with 74 non-limited 4's in game, it's going to be a lot of pulls to get a large pool of feeders all the way to 360.  I have about 4 5's that will be complete whenever my large pool of champed 4s rises enough to push out the final cover, but that should be 2-3 years from now at the rate things are going and if I don't bonus them.  (Note that it doesn't matter much for those 5's, as they are not in the meta and never will be.)

You can do very targeted champing of certain 5's, but that's likely to be a very long term project (even with Bonus targeting) for each 5.  

Note that it's not unexpected that it is basically impossible to cover all the 5's since they represent the top tier in the game, and they are meant to be the ultimate carrot and basically unachievable.  The only people walking around with a full champed 5 roster have been here since day 1 and playing hard the whole time, basically.

ALSO note:  The sheer number of 4's are a much bigger problem, IMO, for the game's health, from the perspective of being something that more people will run into.  But you brought up 5's.

Straycat

Dax317 said:

These are my suggestions to help with dilution and to update the vaults.  I would leave the PvP and PvE vaults as they are. 

The first thing I think we'd notice is a great influx of 3*s. Assuming the 3-4* odds in the new heroics are the same as 2-3*s odds currently. Especially when opening 10 packs. There'd be more 4*s from heroics, but also less LT pulls since there'd be no 20 cp option. 20% decrease from cp, but a 320% increase of 4*s from heroics (1/16 to 1/5). Overall I think the 3* farm would become as necessary as 2* farms.

I don't know what the 100-150 cp option does tho. 4* transitioners would pull latests, 5* players would save that cp for the next batch of latests.

Black Duke

pfarewell said:

I would like to see them create a regularly rotating classics store. Select 3 5* classic covers and 12 classic four star covers. Even if the price is set 25 cp, I think players would chase covers they need. This could help with the dilution problem. 

Definitely this. I've really enjoyed the Anniversary Store since it has allowed me to champion Dr. Strange and OML. 

broll

Leave Classics as 4/5, but lower the price to 15 CP.
Add a new vault that has only Classic 5*s that costs 20 CP
Leave Latest as is.

Make Heroics 3/4/5, but lower the rate you get them some.
Make Elites 2/3/4, and increase the rate you get them (all Standard above SCL7 should be convert to elites), some HTs in 7 & * lowered to ETs.
Leave Standard as it is, but decrease their distribution by a little each SCL to the point where you get none at SCL7.

Vaults should have 3 5*s & 6-9 4*s, Leave supports in their but they are not nearly as valuable as the vaults want to claim they are, more equivalent to ETs at best IMO.

Twomp_thaDJ

pfarewell said:

I would like to see them create a regularly rotating classics store. Select 3 5* classic covers and 12 classic four star covers. Even if the price is set 25 cp, I think players would chase covers they need. This could help with the dilution problem. 

This may be the best suggestion I’ve seen... that should be something D3 can legit put out that wouldn’t change the dynamic of the game to drastically 

broll

Twomp_thaDJ said:

pfarewell said:

I would like to see them create a regularly rotating classics store. Select 3 5* classic covers and 12 classic four star covers. Even if the price is set 25 cp, I think players would chase covers they need. This could help with the dilution problem. 

This may be the best suggestion I’ve seen... that should be something D3 can legit put out that wouldn’t change the dynamic of the game to drastically 

It's been suggested time and time again, several times by me.  I'm not optimistic it will ever happen.  The featured 4*s was cancelled allegedly because it was too difficult to maintain (I don't buy it but that's what they said), this would seem as difficult if not more to maintain. Not to mention this would encourage hoarding covers which the devs have openly said they don't like (and honestly IMO one of the real reasons featured went away).

Dogface

The problem with having more vaults with for example 3 5* and 12 4* is that you can never please everyone. Consider a vault with Th5r, Dr. Octopus and Archangel and another vault with Kitty, Bruce Banner and Wasp. The dilution might be less, but these aren't the vaults i'd put my cp in.
A Kitty, Okoye, Thor vault on the other hand...

Legasher

How about simply reducing the price of purchasing specific covers and making the limitation of not being able to buy a cover you don't have any of go away after a time?

In the H4H store, a single 4* cover goes for 3600 HP but comes with 10000 Iso and 8 ET. How about reducing the cost of a single 4* cover to 80 CP or keep 125 cp but have it come with 10000 ISO and remove the option to buy once a character reaches 13 covers. Classic 5* are 250 and come with 50000 ISO (which full 5* players really don't seem to need). So make classic 5* covers cost 350 if you have a cover in that color, 700 if you do not and put latest at 700 across the board. The best thing they could do is make targeted acquisition easier. Its silly for a single cover of a character that's been out for almost three years to cost the same as 36 tokens.

Then they would just need to minorly adjust limited vaults to include the essential 5* for initial rostering.

4* (newest 3 4* releases) - 125 CP, can't purchase new colors.
4* ("classic" 4*) - 125 CP, even new colors, and gives 10000 ISO cannot buy covers once at 13.
5* (latest) - down to 700 CP and could be included in vaults for events when essential, though maybe not let that reset with the rest of the vault.
5* (classics) - down to 700 CP for new colors, 350 for acquired colors and could be included in vaults for events when essential, though maybe not let that reset with the rest of the vault.