Thousand-Year Storm

Elektrophorus

Disclaimer: I don’t even own the card yet, so this is just an outsider opinion.

I think that the new copy rules, applied to Thousand-Year Storm (TYS), go against the very spirit of the card.

In paper MTG, the card allows you to chain a bunch of spells together, being not uncommon to get a ridiculous amount of casts off through synergies with cards like Brass’s Bounty and Mission Briefing. This ultimately leads to a kill with cards like Lightning Strike, and hearkens back to the old “Storm” mechanic from the Odyssey block. This combo is not easy to assemble either, requiring several late game plays, an extra turn, and a deck catered to it (limiting your effectiveness in the meta).

However, due to game limitations in MTGPQ, the copy rule only serves to hamstring the card to uselessness. As designed, the hand size limitation puts a hard cap to how many copies you can create. Since the spells don’t even come with full mana, it makes it hard to even come close to the power level in paper.

Number of spells in hand, versus effect:

* A => nothing
* AB => B
* ABC => BCC
* ABCD => BCCDDD
* ABCDE => BCCDDD

If this is really meant to be a Mythic Rare, I think that something needs to be done. Unless I’m missing something.

[Deleted User]

I dont own it either but i can see this

Maybe have TYS can have an ability/text added:

You have no maximum hand size until... end of turn?

Or increase your maximum hand size to "x" like maybe 15?

I dont know im just snowballing here. 

Magagumo

Having gotten TYS on day 1 of GRN, I can tell you that it's initial form was extremely powerful-- I didn't run BSZ or Stitch or other super-cards, but just Discovery, Talent of Telepath, Unmoored Ego, and Beacon Bolt allowed you to empty an opp's hand, and then just rain down huge damage bolts; adding Electromancer to guarantee the first copied discovery/telepath went off made it even better.

The paper version only counts the second casting per turn, I think, which could have been a better balance then just blocking TYS copies from being cast.

TLDR: It did need to change, but it got hit hard.

Theros

As it is, only kiora can take partial use with it which is to be expected due to gem changers. Your hand gets filled with copies that are useless  because you have no rom to draw an additional card at the beginning of your turn. You need a card like discovery to be able to make six copies or stack 3 to 4 spells full with gems changers. The card is unusable to any PWs. Without copies being cast, it's hard to build reinforcements. Other PWS without gem changers need to stack 6 spells in order to get 6 copies . It's basically a 1 spell 1 copies in most cases considering spells can have high mana cost. Reinforcement's reseting to 0 does not help with the nerf

Elektrophorus

Magagumo said:

The paper version only counts the second casting per turn, I think, which could have been a better balance then just blocking TYS copies from being cast.

The paper version is a carbon copy of Storm. It applies to every spell you cast in the turn (the first one is not copied), ramping up by one additional copy for each spell you cast.

But, since copies of spells in paper MTG are made on the stack (and aren’t cast separately) it works a bit differently. That’s why this card feels so limited, and why it feels against the spirit of the card.

Laeuftbeidir

It still works somehow in my Jaya build, but.. Not very well. It's now on a rare level and needs very careful hand management to play it at that level.. It was fun while it lated.

Anybody having an idea how to buff this card without creating an infinite loop?

I'd suggest adding mana based on shields. That way, waiting for the next turn offers some value

TheDude1

Laeuftbeidir said:

It still works somehow in my Jaya build, but.. Not very well. It's now on a rare level and needs very careful hand management to play it at that level.. It was fun while it lated.

Anybody having an idea how to buff this card without creating an infinite loop?

I'd suggest adding mana based on shields. That way, waiting for the next turn offers some value

There are a couple ways you could go about it, the most obvious would be instead of creating a copy you could fetch the next one (or multiple) of the same card from your library.  That completely bypasses the issue with copies not casting same-turn, because newly-drawn cards with full mana are always cast. (EDIT: I'm presuming we get back to how this card was intended: a little loopiness but not infinite.)


You're right, you could do a mana based on shield, though you have to be careful with reinforcing TYS itself to artificially pump up the benefit.  I think that's why they were doing it based on reinforcements and removing the reinforcements at end of turn. 

Or instead of nerfing copies to not cast same-turn in general (because that seems incredibly counterintuitive), you could have changed TYS to say:

[Starts at 3 shield instead of 4] Reinforcements do not increase shield count.  When casting a non-copy spell, add one shield and create a number of copies equal to this support's shield count minus one.  Copies get mana equal to this support's shield count times 2. At end of turn, if the shield count is above X, return shield count to X-1, where X is the shield count at the beginning of the turn.

I think this compromise gets to a point where it's still powerful but not completely broken:

• We know they can set up cards where reinforcements do not buff based on Squee, so there's no incentive to cast multiple ones at once
• If you're using gem changers as a spell, you're running the risk of hitting TYS and lowering its shield count artificially before casting your next spell
• There's a built-in shield decrease when it's used to make it a true "thousand year" event, so it's not locked into being on the board forever, and you'd have to be strategic in using it
• The shield decrease only takes effect when it's used (since reinforcements do not buff it)

Not saying this is a perfect idea, but it at least gives the spirit of what the card is meant to do without it being completely broken.  There are probably still a couple smaller loops available but isn't that the whole point of the card in the first place?

(EDIT: Before you say that this is still vulnerable to cards like BSZ/Stitch in Time to go into significant loops, well you're right, but that seems like a problem with those cards being way too overpowered in general.  If you look at any number of the newest power-loop decks, they (almost?) all have BSZ, and I'm sure we'll see Stitch becoming more frequent as more people acquire that as well)

Gideon

The new copy rules make it unfun. For some reason people don’t like to have fun playing this game. The AI can’t pilot any deck to their fullest potential. If this were true PvP changing these cards and rules would actually matter but it doesn’t matter. Please stop complaining and writing way to many thoughts all of which are making the game unfun.

Laeuftbeidir

Gideon said:

The new copy rules make it unfun. For some reason people don’t like to have fun playing this game. The AI can’t pilot any deck to their fullest potential. If this were true PvP changing these cards and rules would actually matter but it doesn’t matter. Please stop complaining and writing way to many thoughts all of which are making the game unfun.

I

 think we have different ideas about what fun is. I don't enjoy winning because I win.

I like challenges. I like puzzles. I enjoy building the best decks possible from what I have.. When I basically play the same thing everywhere with only minor changes for secondarie because it gets all the points, always, then the puzzle is boring and the challenge gone. BSZ is just too powerful to not use it everywhere. Playing 8 bsz per turn and having, 12 extra swaps is too powerful not to play it.

Gideon

But you still use it because it is fun. You should probably not use the card and make it more challenging for yourself then. There are so many different ways to play the game. You decide what cards to play with from your collection. 

DumasAG

Just opened this in a pack, which means I need to care now I guess. Seems like an entirely useless card. At least it wasn't a masterpiece, cause then I would need to be that much saltier about it (still looking at you, Choke...).

andrewvanmarle

The only way to make this copy "fix" work again is to loosen the strictures on hand size

DumasAG

I like the idea someone had of fetching the next spell from your deck and giving it x mana. Maybe put a reinforcement cap on Thousand Year storm so that it self-destructs at X reinforcements?