Infinite fetch

Alanako

Do you think they acknowledge that Mausoleum Secrets and Hatchery Spider could fetch and cast themselves infinitely?

khurram

Hatchery spider can do that, in a deck with only itself and 9 spells.

ElfNeedsFood

If you have 13 creatures in your graveyard and haven't won yet, you get an infinite combo...  They probably should lower the Undergrowth limit to lower than the actual casting cost, but if you can get 13 creatures in the graveyard and haven't won yet...  Also, you can probably break out of the loop by declining the fetch if it works like the other fetch spells where you select a card.

Azerack

Liliana 4 will be entertaining for the X creatures in your graveyard, bit. I already enjoy playing her for fun, now it should be even more fun to take advantage of her T1 ability. 

Brigby

Alanako said:

Do you think they acknowledge that Mausoleum Secrets and Hatchery Spider could fetch and cast themselves infinitely? 

Based on the descriptions for Mausoleum Secrets and Hatchery Spider stating "...next 3 different Black cards..." and "...one of the first 2 different Creatures..." respectively, that leads me to believe that they can't fetch themselves from the deck.

Gabrosin

Brigby said:

Alanako said:

Do you think they acknowledge that Mausoleum Secrets and Hatchery Spider could fetch and cast themselves infinitely? 

Based on the descriptions for Mausoleum Secrets and Hatchery Spider stating "...next 3 different Black cards..." and "...one of the first 2 different Creatures..." respectively, that leads me to believe that they can't fetch themselves from the deck.

I don't think that's how this wording has worked on previous cards.  I think I've used a Recollect to retrieve another Recollect before.  Muldrotha is another card that could check on this... perhaps someone who can fire up the game right now can check it out and be sure.

Brigby

Gabrosin said:

Brigby said:

Alanako said:

Do you think they acknowledge that Mausoleum Secrets and Hatchery Spider could fetch and cast themselves infinitely? 

Based on the descriptions for Mausoleum Secrets and Hatchery Spider stating "...next 3 different Black cards..." and "...one of the first 2 different Creatures..." respectively, that leads me to believe that they can't fetch themselves from the deck.

I don't think that's how this wording has worked on previous cards.  I think I've used a Recollect to retrieve another Recollect before.  Muldrotha is another card that could check on this... perhaps someone who can fire up the game right now can check it out and be sure.

Ah unfortunately I haven't gotten those cards yet, so I've never tried it. I can see though how "different" in that case means the fetched cards just need to be different from each other, but one can be the same as the original card that triggered the fetch mechanic.

Larz70

Ever since they fixed Legion Conquistador to stop at 4 fetches (along with copies of spells with full mana to not cast until next turn) the game has eliminated two sources of infinite loops.  With Hatchery spider, I think what will happen is that once you have dumped 13 spiders onto the graveyard, the library will have 3 Hatchery spiders in the library (13+3=16, which is the next multiple of 4) so when you cast the first spider, you can fetch the next two before it fizzles out (I'm assuming that the deck has only 1 creature). The next turn, the library will generate 4 more copies so this time your next cast of spider will cast 3 more, and so on and so forth.  You can see the same thing with Vivien's Invocation and Eye of Ugin, even though they don't cause infinite loops, they stop fetching past the 4th copy of the same creature)

Laeuftbeidir

Brigby said:

Gabrosin said:

Brigby said:

Alanako said:

Do you think they acknowledge that Mausoleum Secrets and Hatchery Spider could fetch and cast themselves infinitely? 

Based on the descriptions for Mausoleum Secrets and Hatchery Spider stating "...next 3 different Black cards..." and "...one of the first 2 different Creatures..." respectively, that leads me to believe that they can't fetch themselves from the deck.

I don't think that's how this wording has worked on previous cards.  I think I've used a Recollect to retrieve another Recollect before.  Muldrotha is another card that could check on this... perhaps someone who can fire up the game right now can check it out and be sure.

Ah unfortunately I haven't gotten those cards yet, so I've never tried it. I can see though how "different" in that case means the fetched cards just need to be different from each other, but one can be the same as the original card that triggered the fetch mechanic.

I

 really enjoy seeing you participating in this discussion, shining a light on why we often have issues with card wording, and ask for rules etc!

By the way, the legion thing prevented a possible, but only virtual infinite loop.

You still can go literally and easy infinite with several other combos - just from the back of my mind :

Seasons past and huf

Harness + omni/ as foretold +whir of invention

And semi infinite with for example BSZ and one other piece I forgot the name of

Alanako

The problem I saw if they have not limited their fetching ability it's not you using it(although you could) but the IA could get the infinite fetch (without doing anything else) and force you to exit the match and lose some points in an event

ElfNeedsFood

They could “fix” that by having the AI just decline the 5th card. 

babar3355

Why are we worried about this loop vs the many other loops that people can already do?  Like Squee/Sarkhans Madness or the many many versions in legacy?  The real problem will be if Greg can figure out how to do it.

Kinesia

It seems like Hatchery Spider can't fetch itself, it was getting me 2 Itlamoc's instead. I had other creatures in the deck too, but it was showing me two of the same support only. (multiple times)

Alanako

babar3355 said:

Why are we worried about this loop vs the many other loops that people can already do?  Like Squee/Sarkhans Madness or the many many versions in legacy?  The real problem will be if Greg can figure out how to do it.

Greg
 do not need to figure out how to do it. A deck with Mausoleum as the only black card, and simply by casting it with 7 creatures in graveyard, he would enter an infinite loop

hawkyh1

@Kinesia did you play gather the pack or itlamoc before
hatchery spider?

HH

Kinesia

@hawkyh1 Given the deck, probably. Can't remember exactly though.

ManiiNames

Hatchery Spider will give you the next two possible cards for it to fetch, so another spider may not be available.  I built a Kiora spider deck (in standard) with two creatures and eight spells, it ran pretty nicely.  However the spider itself is not all that scary, so you need a whole lotta spiders or something else meaty to go with it.

hawkyh1

the reason I ask is that gather the pack will dump many creatures
into the graveyard. if cast more than once it's more likely than not
to leave supports in front of any remaining creatures.

HH

fiirst

can dev put a signal of reshuffling another 40 cards into the deck???