Character Inflation

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  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,166 Chairperson of the Boards
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    HP was my biggest bottleneck as a totally F2P player. I just passed day 1,000, so I'm fine on it all now. I determined at some point that 3*s were relatively reliable to get on purpose through bonus heroing, so I gutted my roster down to just the ones i actually used and started rostering 4*s aggressively. I kept a 3* flex spot I'd use to roster a single cover of whoever was required, sometimes doing it several times per event in the case of like an allance event where i needed to get node access and had several covers on the vine for the same character. I don't know if that was the "fast way" to getting where I am, it's just the way I got here. I was then alternating between 4*s and 3*s until I was back to having everyone. Most of my hp came from 2* farming and pve. I was grinding everything I could for a long time, and now that I have everyone (but Cable) on roster, I just play PVE to progression
  • Dogface
    Dogface Posts: 974 Critical Contributor
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    It helps my HP stack that i regularly place top 50 in PVE. That's 100 HP every day. It surely is a bit more stressfull than going for max progression alone, but worth it imo. 
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,166 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Dogface said:
    It helps my HP stack that i regularly place top 50 in PVE. That's 100 HP every day. It surely is a bit more stressfull than going for max progression alone, but worth it imo. 
    That's true. I usually only do that if somebody like Okoye or Medusa are boosted to make the final grind trivial, or if it's a character release event anymore though. But in my experience, anything even close to an optimal clear (4X at open, 2X within an hour or so of close) is usually good for t50 if you want it and have all the requireds
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,192 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I've had friends that I've recommended to play this game quit after a few weeks as the time investment to start is like having a part time job. 
  • randomhero1090
    randomhero1090 Posts: 396 Mover and Shaker
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    DarthDeVo said:
    randomhero1090 said:
    I'm coming up on a year.  Spent over $500 on the game.  Couldn't imagine trying to start this game from scratch without spending any money.  All the money went to HP or bundles that included HP.  Majority of HP went to slots (I have all but 3x 5* rostered).

    Roster spots way too expensive.  ISO too rare and expensive.  Double ISO during anni was great, should just leave it that way.  Put some sort of iso converter in the game.  Even if its crazy.  Like 10,000 ISO for 1 CP or something like that.

    I have 21x 4* fully covered and obviously don't have the ISO.  I need like 8,000,000 ISO to champ them all.  So if I earn roughly 25,000 ISO per day, going to take me 320 days of play to champ them all :neutral:   
    I've been playing for 2.5 years, fairly competitively for 2 years. I pull down somewhere in the neighborhood of 40-50K ISO per day depending on rewards, and I still have about a 3.2M overall ISO debt.

    I was closer to 8M at the beginning of the year, so it is going down. I had hoped to be at least ISO neutral by the end of the year, but that's looking less and less likely. I should be close though.

    About 1.2M of that is owed among the 1*, 3*, and 4* tiers. The rest is thanks to the 5*s.

    The biggest thing they could do is adjust the cost of champing a 4* downward. It should cost 250K, 275K at the most. It's the largest tier by far, and also the one that costs the most to champ on an ISO-to-level ratio. 

    Yeah, the 25,000 was a light figure.  I pulled down 40,000 today so far.

    Agree.  4* champ cost is way high.
  • randomhero1090
    randomhero1090 Posts: 396 Mover and Shaker
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    DyingLegend said:
    I've had friends that I've recommended to play this game quit after a few weeks as the time investment to start is like having a part time job.
    Yeah it's kinda odd. Some people complain about games locking them out of playing due to power/health/time meters or what have you. Here, you can play almost as much as you want. In season you can literally just play and play and play and play. But the PVP/PVE grind is a bit much. Max progression should be 60 wins PVP. Trim PVE down to 5 total grinds per node over 24hrs (3 clears to knock the timer back to 24s, 2 clears to knock the points down to 0).
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,192 Chairperson of the Boards
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    randomhero1090 said:
    DyingLegend said:
    I've had friends that I've recommended to play this game quit after a few weeks as the time investment to start is like having a part time job.
    Yeah it's kinda odd. Some people complain about games locking them out of playing due to power/health/time meters or what have you. Here, you can play almost as much as you want. In season you can literally just play and play and play and play. But the PVP/PVE grind is a bit much. Max progression should be 60 wins PVP. Trim PVE down to 5 total grinds per node over 24hrs (3 clears to knock the timer back to 24s, 2 clears to knock the points down to 0).

    Agreed, something has to be done to streamline the grind a bit. I just hate playing nodes my roster demolishes.

    Its also a hard sell telling people that it takes about a year plus to truly get anywhere and even then  if you don't spend money or play 24/7 you will slowly progress. 
  • Dogface
    Dogface Posts: 974 Critical Contributor
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    DyingLegend said:
    randomhero1090 said:
    DyingLegend said:
    I've had friends that I've recommended to play this game quit after a few weeks as the time investment to start is like having a part time job.
    Yeah it's kinda odd. Some people complain about games locking them out of playing due to power/health/time meters or what have you. Here, you can play almost as much as you want. In season you can literally just play and play and play and play. But the PVP/PVE grind is a bit much. Max progression should be 60 wins PVP. Trim PVE down to 5 total grinds per node over 24hrs (3 clears to knock the timer back to 24s, 2 clears to knock the points down to 0).

    Agreed, something has to be done to streamline the grind a bit. I just hate playing nodes my roster demolishes.

    Its also a hard sell telling people that it takes about a year plus to truly get anywhere and even then  if you don't spend money or play 24/7 you will slowly progress. 
    It's how you set your goals. If you mean by 'truly getting anywhere' as racing through nodes and vying for top placement, then yes, it takes a lot of time. Personally, i just started playing and enjoyed the fact that i was able to complete more and more nodes ( can't remember how long it took that i could complete DDQ). Now about two years later, and with steady improvement to my roster, i can easily reach max progression in PVE (don't play much PVP). Really going for top placement isn't really for me, for i lack both the absolute will and probably the funds.
  • TPF Alexis
    TPF Alexis Posts: 3,826 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I started not quite two years ago, and was able to get to HP positive in less than a year, even with some poor decisions made before I found the forum and learned not to spend them on anything but Roster slots. Spent maybe US$60 or so during that time.

    Since I started, tho, there have been another 48 or so characters released. Something like a 40% increase in the number of needed slots. That's a pretty substantial extra hurdle there.
  • kk3thess
    kk3thess Posts: 202 Tile Toppler
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    I'm totally a FTP player on day 439 and I have 124 roster slots. I've had some problems with internet, with my phone and social life preventing me from playing the game optimally. I also made some pretty bad decisions recruiting characters (constanting selling well covered recruited characters to recruri those I liked more). Overall I think that the price is pretty fair because it pushes us enough to purchase, but doesn't make the game impossible to play if we don't. I mean, they have to make some money to keep MPQ alive, right? I recruit a new character every week, sometimes even more than that, which is an average higher than the launching of new characters, so it's slow, but I'm getting there. It wouldn't hurt if the devs stretched that 1000 HP roster slot point by 5 or 10 slots, but I don't think it would make the game any less pleasant or difficult to play.

    PS: I'm not FTP by choice. If I could, I would purchase some bundles from time to time.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,631 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I passed day 1000 during Anniversary and am HP positive.

    I've hit the stage in the game where quite a few of my 3* are getting max-champed. I've duped some of them (Patch, IM40, Super Steve, Magneto) but the idea of rostering all 3* again is quite daunting in terms of HP costs and Iso. I have 2 Deadpool covers on my vine which I am dithering on. I have more than enough HP but it feels like a slippery slope I'm heading down if I decide to go this route. I will definitely dupe my 3* Strange who needs one cover to be max-champed and there are others who I will dupe also but otherwise it seems a bit scary to be basically re-starting the 3* tier.

    So it doesn't end with just rostering the characters first time round...
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,713 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Yeah I also couldn't recommend this game to a new player, even though myself at day 1280I'm enjoying the game as much as ever. I spent on my first 3 months getting HP for roster slots as their were only about 60-70 characters in the game.

    Now I have 227 roster slots with a dupe champ of all the threes adding to the pain, but I have 180k HP spare from the last two years. Yet I'm still in about a 7 million hole for ISO. The last two years HP hasn't been an issue but I only spend it on one shield per event and known quantities in vaults, I don't gamble on packs and hopefully soon this scourge will be banned from under 18 games.

    I just cannot see how a new player could look at that four star tier and not just quit. Even if they had an iso flow to champ one per week it's getting to 2 years. HP flow is a hurdle you will over come much earlier than ISO.

    Double ISO from anniversary event felt about the right sort of levels normal ISO should be, enough to champ a four star per week.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,310 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Roster slots are the primary revenue generator for the game, so don't expect that to change.  Especially now that they gave us saved covers, which to me was mostly about encouraging rostering more characters.

    Recently, unannounced, the game has begun to stress the last 3 released 4's in terms of essentials for PVE.  So while the essential pattern is L(atest), L, L, V(intage), V, if you roster the newest people, that gets you into the 4E for a lot of PVEs.  It also means that you'll get more covers for those characters.

    What this means is that your actual roster needs are slightly reduced in terms of node access (from the point of view of, who should I roster for maximum return of being able to play events?).  It also means you can get these newer 4's covered relatively quickly.

    In a sense, this is a partial retirement of characters once they are a few months old.

    That aside, the size of the 4 tier (and 5, to some extent) is really getting a bit silly.  72 4's (non-limited), and 5 boosted per week means - at most - 4 times a year, you'll see any particular 4 boosted.  The Vintage essential cycle is now a years-long cycle between needing a 4 as an essential.

    A lot of the remaining issues in the game at this point are trying to deal with its success/longevity.  Adding characters generates revenue in terms of roster slots and people chasing covers, but each one matters a little less and makes the hurdle to new players entering the tier higher. 

    The only way to reverse the dilution would be retiring characters, but you can't retire characters without removing them from tokens, which would make a lot of people unhappy in terms of missed champ rewards as well as anyone trying to complete that character.

    The remaining solution would be to somehow make 4's more accessible, but that ends up creating more roster slot pressure (although you could feel more comfortable letting people go if the tier was more available).  It also brings up the question of making 4* covers less valuable, since getting more of a resource makes it lose relative value.  And given that we are being "sold" a new 4 every couple weeks or so....devaluing the tier in an official way doesn't seem likely.

    I am curious as to when and if the developers will take more steps to reduce this hurdle in the game.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,916 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It’s honestly not as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Many new players in this thread stated they were able to “catch up” within a year. When you look at the staggering number of HP needed to do that, it’s pretty impressive. 

    The game drastically reduced the iso crunch by giving us saved covers. Now they are supposed to do the same with slots? I mean the developers have stated that it’s their biggest source of revenue and at some point the game needs to make money. Creating that pressure of who do I roster/ who do I let go of can be fun for new players. If anything like me you seek advice, read ranking lists and all of a sudden a community is formed of like minded players trying to pass down knowledge that can help you in your struggle. With no “struggle” I probably never would have found these boards. 

    That struggle also also puts players to a choice of whether of not to spend and keep both covers. These are ultimately good things even if it’s annoying at first. 
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Tony_Foot said:
     
    Now I have 227 roster slots with a dupe champ of all the threes adding to the pain, but I have 180k HP spare from the last two years. Yet I'm still in about a 7 million hole for ISO. 

    Not to tell you how to play but you should probally start converting that hp into other resources (iso, command points,  covers)  via off season 40 packs
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,713 Chairperson of the Boards
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    fmftint said:
    Tony_Foot said:
     
    Now I have 227 roster slots with a dupe champ of all the threes adding to the pain, but I have 180k HP spare from the last two years. Yet I'm still in about a 7 million hole for ISO. 

    Not to tell you how to play but you should probally start converting that hp into other resources (iso, command points,  covers)  via off season 40 packs
    I don’t gamble, I play this game with my son. I don’t like the loot box culture and don’t want him to think that filth is the norm. I buy a lot of the vaults that are known quantities, where I can see everything I’m buying. 

    Everyone else can do as they see fit but I’m not about to show that route of progress to a child.  :)
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,713 Chairperson of the Boards
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    OJSP said:
    Tony_Foot said:
    I don’t gamble, I play this game with my son. I don’t like the loot box culture and don’t want him to think that filth is the norm. I buy a lot of the vaults that are known quantities, where I can see everything I’m buying. 

    Everyone else can do as they see fit but I’m not about to show that route of progress to a child.  :)
    What is the difference between opening packs with opening LTs?
    I’m not spending money to open LTS but I have spent money getting some of that HP. The LTS my son has seen as rewards for completeing sections of the game. As I say I’m happy for him to see me earn and open tokens but not happy to see me spend a virtual currency directly worth £99 for 20k. He can visually see the worth of that if I opened a box. He knows the worth of HP, LTS are in my eyes different.

    As I said you can do with your son whatever you see fit, I choose to not showing my son gambling as an acceptable means of gaming. Hopefully soon it will get banned in my country.
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,713 Chairperson of the Boards
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    OJSP said:
    Tony_Foot said:
    As I said you can do with your son whatever you see fit, I choose to not showing my son gambling as an acceptable means of gaming. Hopefully soon it will get banned in my country.
    I wasn’t talking about what you’re doing with your son. I was genuinely interested in seeing why you see them as different. So, if we have LT multipacks with other items, you would stop opening them too?

    Btw, we live in the same country.
    I guess I will cross that bridge when it comes to it. If it’s a vault where it had 40 known items and a LT then I’m fine with that. I know what I’m buying, 40 items and a four star. I know the exact numbers of things I’m getting, if it’s a 40 item spin of the wheel, then no I’m not happy with that. For me personally LTS come from champion rewards and prizes. 
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,713 Chairperson of the Boards
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    OJSP said:
    Tony_Foot said:
    I guess I will cross that bridge when it comes to it. If it’s a vault where it had 40 known items and a LT then I’m fine with that. I know what I’m buying, 40 items and a four star. I know the exact numbers of things I’m getting, if it’s a 40 item spin of the wheel, then no I’m not happy with that. For me personally LTS come from champion rewards and prizes. 
    But, what about the 5*s that we are getting from the LTs? that’s a spin of the wheel, isn’t it?
    No to me it’s a four star, I know the minimum and I didn’t pay for them. I’m not about to complain about the odds on something I get for free, same as standard tokens.

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