PvP Frustration

helix72
helix72 Posts: 997 Critical Contributor
in MPQ General Discussion
I recognize this isn't a new topic, as I've seen forum polls that suggest the majority of players either don't play PvP or only play PvP because they feel they have to. Frankly I've started doing it more because I'm working on covering the 4* tier and the event turnover gives you more chances to get specific covers for specific characters.

The problem comes because the placement vs progression mechanic seems out of whack. In Danger Room, I just finished #12 out of 500, and still didn't earn a single 4* cover from either progression or placement. I ended with 896 of the needed 900 points because the last target I hit (I was shield hopping) was apparently being hit while I was hitting it and it did not generate me enough points by the time the battle finished. Then there were 2 minutes left and I couldn't finish a final attack in time. I can't view exactly how many wins I had, but I believe it was only in the low 20's.

I'm fine with not competing for placement, but then it appears I need to decide whether I want progression from wins or points. If I go for the points, I can't get enough wins because I get ranked too high and the other teams are too tough. And I don't know how I could get a lot of wins while keeping my points low to ensure easier competition. Is that even possible?

Am I just playing PvP wrong?

One suggestion I have--make the enemy points like ordering an Uber. Whatever the stated point value is when you attack, that should be the point value you get for winning.

What do you guys think?
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Comments

  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,503 Chairperson of the Boards
    helix72 said:
    I recognize this isn't a new topic, as I've seen forum polls that suggest the majority of players either don't play PvP or only play PvP because they feel they have to. Frankly I've started doing it more because I'm working on covering the 4* tier and the event turnover gives you more chances to get specific covers for specific characters.

    The problem comes because the placement vs progression mechanic seems out of whack. In Danger Room, I just finished #12 out of 500, and still didn't earn a single 4* cover from either progression or placement. I ended with 896 of the needed 900 points because the last target I hit (I was shield hopping) was apparently being hit while I was hitting it and it did not generate me enough points by the time the battle finished. Then there were 2 minutes left and I couldn't finish a final attack in time. I can't view exactly how many wins I had, but I believe it was only in the low 20's.

    I'm fine with not competing for placement, but then it appears I need to decide whether I want progression from wins or points. If I go for the points, I can't get enough wins because I get ranked too high and the other teams are too tough. And I don't know how I could get a lot of wins while keeping my points low to ensure easier competition. Is that even possible?

    Am I just playing PvP wrong?

    One suggestion I have--make the enemy points like ordering an Uber. Whatever the stated point value is when you attack, that should be the point value you get for winning.

    What do you guys think?
    You are the precise reason they put in the 45 win mechanic.  If your roster isn’t deep/strong enough or you don’t have the exp/coordination knowledge,  then 900 prog prize is still achievable through 45 wins.

    in an off season event, the coordination rooms don’t put the same effort in generating points, and event wide scores will go down.  This happens every off season
  • MushroomGenius808
    MushroomGenius808 Posts: 138 Tile Toppler
    edited October 2018
    helix72 said:
    ... And I don't know how I could get a lot of wins while keeping my points low to ensure easier competition. Is that even possible?


    You could dump points by intentionally losing (retreating).  Your opponents will thank you.  Since you're just chasing wins rather than points, this tactic should work for you. 
  • helix72
    helix72 Posts: 997 Critical Contributor
    The problem is if I'm already at 800+ points with only 25 wins, no matter how much skipping I do the other teams are so strong that the chance of me winning combined with the length of time to do so makes getting an additional 15 wins nearly impossible. Is there some strategy I'm missing to keep the competition soft to get lots of wins?
  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,503 Chairperson of the Boards
    helix72 said:
    The problem is if I'm already at 800+ points with only 25 wins, no matter how much skipping I do the other teams are so strong that the chance of me winning combined with the length of time to do so makes getting an additional 15 wins nearly impossible. Is there some strategy I'm missing to keep the competition soft to get lots of wins?
    Yes,  start the event earlier,  use your weakest teams to beat seeds and maintain a low defensive mar and play the width of your roster and not just the top end.

    with respect to off season events, scoring is always low and it’s almost always faster to get 75 wins vs multiple competitive hops.  It’s just knowing the environment and the competiveness of the event

  • tincanicarus
    tincanicarus Posts: 6 Just Dropped In
    edited October 2018
    I'm in a similar place as you are, and I absolutely go for progress rewards based on wins, meaning my placement can be completely out of whack in the end, but I play for progress, so that's cool with me!
    How do you do it? You don't move too quickly.
    I even deliberately pick my battles in an effort to not gather too many points, and climb up around 600 and then take a break (aka go to bed). As soon as you go over ~550, enemy teams will hit you more, so you lose points, and in the morning I can go up and at it and the enemies are manageable. Rinse and repeat with playing in the morning and playing in the evening.
    What you need to do for this is: join early, don't climb too quickly. Take some risky battles, lose occasionally, and if necessary, take a C-team into battle and retreat immediately. That should lose you points quickly. It's maybe a counterintuitive way of playing, and I don't actually hit 40 wins very often (because pvp can be exhausting with my roster), but any day I want to, I absolutely can!
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    The 4* cover is at 40 wins not 45. There is no reward at 45 wins.
  • barrok
    barrok Posts: 37 Just Dropped In
    What I do, since I am in the same boat as you.. is I join really early and I go straight to the top. I then am around 14 wins or something, and 550 points and you can't really get any higher because you are already rank 2 or 3. 

    Then you float, and get hammered. Then you do it again. And again and again.

    So then you finally finish the PVP with 40 wins at score 600 :) That is how almost all of my PVP's go.
  • skittledaddy
    skittledaddy Posts: 1,001 Chairperson of the Boards
    barrok said:
    What I do, since I am in the same boat as you.. is I join really early and I go straight to the top. I then am around 14 wins or something, and 550 points and you can't really get any higher because you are already rank 2 or 3. 

    Then you float, and get hammered. Then you do it again. And again and again.

    So then you finally finish the PVP with 40 wins at score 600 :) That is how almost all of my PVP's go.
    That was my approach, too. But sometimes when "floating" I wouldn't get "hammered", instead just ignored/passed-by until too late to regroup and recover.
    Lately I've tried the retreating approach and it's gotten the job (getting 40 wins) done eventually, but it sure seems broken to have to play that way just to get progression rewards.
    I couldn't care less about placement as it's eternally out of reach for me to even bother, and I'm okay with that.
  • Hadronic
    Hadronic Posts: 338 Mover and Shaker
    Find someone to trade retals with. Keep using easier teams until you can both get down to 1*/Loaner/3*Thanos

    Even better if that second person is your own alt.
  • helix72
    helix72 Posts: 997 Critical Contributor
    @Daredevil217 thank you. Your response is helpful. I am in the 4 star tier. I have every 3 star rostered and champed (only 2 max champed). In the 4* tier, out of 74 characters, I have all of them rostered, 41 fully covered, and 15 champed. The ones that aren't fully covered have anywhere from 5 - 12 covers and are at varying levels from 94 to 250 depending on if there was a crash, featured character, shield training, etc.

    I have 21 of the 29 5*s but most of them have 3 or fewer covers, none more than 7 (Archangel), and I've avoided leveling any of them so I don't monkey with my MMR. I've only ever used Archangel in PvP vs teams with Vulture. Otherwise I never use them--I just don't have enough covers or ISO to make them viable.

    If I do get in right when an event starts, I run Gr4cket, G4mora (both champed) and 3* Thanos to clear a bunch of seed teams quickly. But once they are cleared the options for my next battles are usually very strong teams.

    I would then starting using the boosted 4* characters, and if they weren't champed I would still dump at least some ISO into leveling the ones I thought would be useful. For this event, I started with Rogue, Nightcrawler, and Iceman (all champed) and used that team exclusively.

    It sounds like I need to back off and use weaker teams, especially at the start of the event. I'll give that a go for the next one. Appreciate if you have any additional insights.

  • Banquetto
    Banquetto Posts: 29 Just Dropped In
    Daredevil217 said:

    For points, start right at the beginning and clear seeds with a super weak team. The only teams that can then queue you are other weaker teams. Run teams that are all offense and no defense (2* Mags/CStorm), (3* Widow, Cap), etc. to invite hits. Wait for people to retaliate and thump on them. Make sure you use the loaner and make sure you use weak characters. As soon as you use a stronger character then that becomes your new defensive team (no going back) and stronger teams can queue you. 
    Thanks for this tip, I'm going to give it a go next Versus event (have already started playing the current one with my strongest characters).
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Also worth noting that if you start the event as soon as it opens you can get 7-10 wins on seed teams alone; pick a pin, and beat it repeatedly until you run out of seed teams. Then hit the seed teams on the other two pins (they should have one each. 7-10 wins, not so many points that you start getting nailed straight away.
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    Join before an event starts and then you can knock out ten wins fairly quickly against seed teams. Depending on when the event starts I usually will go for at least 5 more wins or if it's at night then I'll keep playing until I get bored, tired or run out of health packs. That usually puts me at 20 wins or more. So right off the bat I'm already halfway to the 4* cover. Then you have the rest of the event to get the other 20 wins and I'll usually do 5 wins at a time here and there.
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,744 Chairperson of the Boards
    The lag, or whatever, that messes with the points is a real pain. My advice is to shoot well north of your goal when shield hopping. That way, if the match ends up worth fewer points, you have leeway. 

    I was playing a LR today where I had 337 points with 4 minutes left. I won two matches, for 70 and 52 points. I finished 193rd, and none of the retals registered for me until after the LR ended. Now, I'm used to it, and I knew I was getting hit and my phone just hadn't picked up on it yet. So, I didn't care, but that lag was crazy. 
  • TPF Alexis
    TPF Alexis Posts: 3,826 Chairperson of the Boards
    Banquetto said:
    Daredevil217 said:

    For points, start right at the beginning and clear seeds with a super weak team. The only teams that can then queue you are other weaker teams. Run teams that are all offense and no defense (2* Mags/CStorm), (3* Widow, Cap), etc. to invite hits. Wait for people to retaliate and thump on them. Make sure you use the loaner and make sure you use weak characters. As soon as you use a stronger character then that becomes your new defensive team (no going back) and stronger teams can queue you. 
    Thanks for this tip, I'm going to give it a go next Versus event (have already started playing the current one with my strongest characters).
    I go all the way down and clear the Seed Teams with the loaner and a couple of 1*. I can usually get 8 wins or so off the seed teams, then generally another half-dozen or so before I even have to use 2*. Much past that, and it seems like the MMR opens up a bit, and I start getting hit by teams that are the loaner plus a couple of champed 3*, but I can usually still make it at least to the high 20s, and sometimes over 30 before I have to pull out my boosted 4*.
  • robertbah
    robertbah Posts: 124 Tile Toppler
    Find a partner to trade wins. You can gradually downgrade the teams so that the match is fast and safe. The best one I like is mirror 3*bullseye, 1*, 1* team.
  • mgood2
    mgood2 Posts: 5 Just Dropped In
    edited October 2018
    Borstock said:
    The lag, or whatever, that messes with the points is a real pain. My advice is to shoot well north of your goal when shield hopping. That way, if the match ends up worth fewer points, you have leeway. 

    I was playing a LR today where I had 337 points with 4 minutes left. I won two matches, for 70 and 52 points. I finished 193rd, and none of the retals registered for me until after the LR ended. Now, I'm used to it, and I knew I was getting hit and my phone just hadn't picked up on it yet. So, I didn't care, but that lag was crazy. 
    Yeah, it’s a client-server latency issue, that they’ve had for years, believe me I’ve talked with them on more than one occasion about it ;). Like you, I’ve gotten use to it, but it’s still really annoying. Ran into one of those lags last week during a run where the game briefly showed me over 1200 after matches 3 times, but it never registered the reward for me. Luckily I had one more shield break in me and I got my 1200! While I do understand that client-server latency is a real issue, I find it frustrating that they have never found some type of fix, even if it were partial, for it. 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,342 Chairperson of the Boards
    mgood2 said:
    Borstock said:
    The lag, or whatever, that messes with the points is a real pain. My advice is to shoot well north of your goal when shield hopping. That way, if the match ends up worth fewer points, you have leeway. 

    I was playing a LR today where I had 337 points with 4 minutes left. I won two matches, for 70 and 52 points. I finished 193rd, and none of the retals registered for me until after the LR ended. Now, I'm used to it, and I knew I was getting hit and my phone just hadn't picked up on it yet. So, I didn't care, but that lag was crazy. 
    Yeah, it’s a client-server latency issue, that they’ve had for years, believe me I’ve talked with them on more than one occasion about it ;). Like you, I’ve gotten use to it, but it’s still really annoying. Ran into one of those lags last week during a run where the game briefly showed me over 1200 after matches 3 times, but it never registered the reward for me. Luckily I had one more shield break in me and I got my 1200! While I do understand that client-server latency is a real issue, I find it frustrating that they have never found some type of fix, even if it were partial, for it. 
    The lag is a real pain, I must have missed my goal by just a few points at least 10 times because the server lag pulled a bait and switch on me points wise. And then you get hit a bazillion times...
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Also, as many inculding myself have said many times, what slice you play has a major factor of what teams you see.   The most populated slices for PVP (and pve) is 1 and 5.  When you are a lower 4* team this is where you will find the most teams that will be the same.  Slice 1 scores more than slice 5 so slice 1 will have bigger points on these lower 4* teams since the “float” point for them is higher.  

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