18 of 42 supports in support tokens!

wymtime

I have to ask when are the new supports going to be placed into the support rently only 18 out of 42 supports are in the support packs and they are all the old supports before the devs chose to give them more power and less utility.  Supports should be able to be earned and won through tokens not just purchased with CP for master support tokens.

devs you have given us a lot more red iso 8 now please let us use it on the good supports you have placed in he game.

Dragon_Nexus

I wonder if they have an issue now where beginner tokens can only give a 1* version of a support so they worry people will feel cheated they can't get a 2*.

If I'm wrong and you *can* get a 2*, it would feel bad for the general consumer to get a "better" version and the only possitive is being able to level it up more. no new ability.

Supports feel really poorly thought through.

Phumade

yes sadly you can still get 2* and 4* variants.  The only thing it unlocks in the support is raising the level cap on the support that no one could ever reach cause of the riso scarcity.  Whatever they do, the just need to open up the access.  

fmftint

Dragon_Nexus said:

I wonder if they have an issue now where beginner tokens can only give a 1* version of a support so they worry people will feel cheated they can't get a 2*.

If I'm wrong and you *can* get a 2*, it would feel bad for the general consumer to get a "better" version and the only possitive is being able to level it up more. no new ability.

Supports feel really poorly thought through.

Basic support tokens can drop up to rank 3 supports 
R3 1:20 odds
R2 1:3
R1 unpublished

HoundofShadow

1:20 is 5%
1:3 is 33.33%
Therefore, R1 is 61.67%.

I think they could start with brginner tokens. As for advanced and master tokens, they are probably still waiting.

As for adding other supports, they are probably still waiting for the right time.

Nick441234

I'm just getting constant dupes now whenever I do actually get a support token. Since the increase in RISO in progression, the RISO from a dupe isn't quite so impressive anymore. 

Quebbster

I now have all those 18, so whenever I get a Basic Support token from a vault and see it's a one-star pull I know it's just going to be a bit of RISO. Quite a pitiful amount too since they turned on the RISO faucet in PvE and PvP.

HoundofShadow

Rank 1 gives 1400 Riso 
but 1* cover gives 100, 2* 250, 3* 500, 4* 1000, and 5* 2000.
Not really pitiful when you compare it with getting 4* covers.

Yepyep

I'm kind of guessing that they've been as disappointed with the rollout + response to supports as players have been. It would be hard to argue that it was anything other than inept. Despite the reality that supports are a cool concept, they are a complex, un-requested complication to the game that would have required careful, well=planned implementation. DOES require that now! It seems likely that heads rolled given how many resources must have been devoted to their development and the dumpster fire they ignited.

So, there are now changes are afoot, such as more RISO and restructuring their level and effect progression. This is good. It seems likely that an actual plan for getting covers into players hands is on their planning whiteboard.

But it won't be easy:

• Supports are intended and structured to be a much more limited resource than character covers. In a way, they seem designed to frustrate with their rarity -- otherwise players will level them up too quickly and they'll lose their appeal. 
• They're going to be a monster wrench in the works when introduced to PvP. Players are going to be very, very upset at the sudden power imbalances they manifest.
• Related to the above, I'm not a graphics design person, but I'd imagine they present a real challenge to the very limited screen real estate on a phone -- their presence needs to be transparent/obvious in PvP. How do you do that?

Anyway, just some thoughts on this. I'm sure you guys who are better at the game than I am know of many more challenges to overcome in implementing them.

Quebbster

HoundofShadow said:

Rank 1 gives 1400 Riso 
but 1* cover gives 100, 2* 250, 3* 500, 4* 1000, and 5* 2000.
Not really pitiful when you compare it with getting 4* covers.

RISO progression rewards alone in PvP and PvE are in the five-digit territory. I stand by my earlier assessment that 1400 RISO is a pitiful amount.

HoundofShadow

iso progression rewards are also in the 5 digit territory but their sell back price are even more pitiful?

Quebbster

HoundofShadow said:

iso progression rewards are also in the 5 digit territory but their sell back price are even more pitiful?

I farm covers so the sale price is irrelevant. The Point is they increased RISO in progression rewards but didn't adjust the duplicate support RISO sale automatically, meaning getting a duplicate support is even more of a bother than it was Before.

AlexNapalm

Two things I can think of that may help people rank up their supports if the devs want to build some (any) internest in supports.

1) Introduce a "save support" feature similar to the "save cover" feature. Since supports are still so rare to get, maybe set the exchange at 3 instead of 5. This wouldn't rank up supports very quickly but I'd still rather bank one than sell one for 1400. 

2) Add character specific supports to champion rewards. Obviously, don't have a support replace any character covers, LTs, CP or HP but maybe for every 8 or so champ levels you get a different rank of a character specific support. 

smkspy

Other than constantly pulling dupes, there is very little incentive to invest riso into 1 and 2 star supports. 

But since getting a 3 is rare and above basically impossible (w/o spending), they could make spending riso even more appealing if once they're max leveled, a champ fee is available to promote your existing support into the next tier.

The increase in riso is nice, but players still have the hesitancy to actually use it because we're hoping that one day better tier supports will rewarded in the future.

wymtime

I would really like them to get all the supports in the support token store.  Then I would like to see them add advanced tokens to progression at higher level PVP and PVE.  Having CL9 be able to reward advanced tokens and possibly a master token for placement would continue to encourage players to play higher CL and get higher roster players the supports that they can use. A 5* player who plays CL9 really has no use for a 2* support.  It is liking bringing a 2* character to a 5* fight

ZeiramMR

Quebbster said:

HoundofShadow said:

iso progression rewards are also in the 5 digit territory but their sell back price are even more pitiful?

I farm covers so the sale price is irrelevant. The Point is they increased RISO in progression rewards but didn't adjust the duplicate support RISO sale automatically, meaning getting a duplicate support is even more of a bother than it was Before.

I believe the increased RISO rewards are to replace the Duplicate Support RISO we would be getting if they increased the distribution of Support Tokens. From the consistent two styles of support bundles we have been seeing for the last few months (apart from the increase in RISO in them), I think the bundle monetization is doing well for D3/Demiurge and they shifted away from plans to increase the token flow.

But I dunno, maybe an Anniversary announcement will prove me wrong.

smkspy

wymtime said:

I would really like them to get all the supports in the support token store.  Then I would like to see them add advanced tokens to progression at higher level PVP and PVE.  Having CL9 be able to reward advanced tokens and possibly a master token for placement would continue to encourage players to play higher CL and get higher roster players the supports that they can use. A 5* player who plays CL9 really has no use for a 2* support.  It is liking bringing a 2* character to a 5* fight

My thoughts exactly. Having a 1 or 2 support is worthless unless there is a viable method for making that support better than tiny % increases from leveling it. Once maxed, the support goes nowhere.

ETA: I had no idea that new supports weren't being added to the token pool. Why? What's the point of having them if they aren't accessible after their release. Bad enough the infinity stone supports that only make the best players even harder to compete against...

tiomono

smkspy said:

wymtime said:

I would really like them to get all the supports in the support token store.  Then I would like to see them add advanced tokens to progression at higher level PVP and PVE.  Having CL9 be able to reward advanced tokens and possibly a master token for placement would continue to encourage players to play higher CL and get higher roster players the supports that they can use. A 5* player who plays CL9 really has no use for a 2* support.  It is liking bringing a 2* character to a 5* fight

My thoughts exactly. Having a 1 or 2 support is worthless unless there is a viable method for making that support better than tiny % increases from leveling it. Once maxed, the support goes nowhere.

ETA: I had no idea that new supports weren't being added to the token pool. Why? What's the point of having them if they aren't accessible after their release. Bad enough the infinity stone supports that only make the best players even harder to compete against...

New supports are not in the standard token pool, but they are added in on every new token store. So the dilution on the new tokens will get rough if they do not eventually change something.

Nick441234

tiomono said:

smkspy said:

wymtime said:

I would really like them to get all the supports in the support token store.  Then I would like to see them add advanced tokens to progression at higher level PVP and PVE.  Having CL9 be able to reward advanced tokens and possibly a master token for placement would continue to encourage players to play higher CL and get higher roster players the supports that they can use. A 5* player who plays CL9 really has no use for a 2* support.  It is liking bringing a 2* character to a 5* fight

My thoughts exactly. Having a 1 or 2 support is worthless unless there is a viable method for making that support better than tiny % increases from leveling it. Once maxed, the support goes nowhere.

ETA: I had no idea that new supports weren't being added to the token pool. Why? What's the point of having them if they aren't accessible after their release. Bad enough the infinity stone supports that only make the best players even harder to compete against...

New supports are not in the standard token pool, but they are added in on every new token store. So the dilution on the new tokens will get rough if they do not eventually change something.

Its OK, 99% of us never get to pick from that new token store anyway. 

Ed_Dragonrider

They are in the SSVI - the Super Secret Vault of Invisibility. You only see it when you have a token for it... Very high security, lest someone try and steal them.

bbigler

I was Lucky enough to get a 4* Vibranium Ore support and because of the Riso increase, it's up to level 120, and it rocks! Of course, it would rock more at level 200, but that's a ton of Riso. Anyway, supports can make pve life much easier. Because of this support my level 74 Grocket was able to win his crash! 

But we still have some major problems with the support system.  1) Tokens are super rare and even if you get a beginner token from a vault, you're likely to get a 1*star support anyway, which isn't useful.
2)The tier structure of supports is exactly the same as the characters. 2* supports are useful in 2* play, 3* supports are useful in 3* play, and so on up to 5* play. That being the case, the difficulty in getting a 4* support should be similar as getting a 4* character. If I got one master support token per week, I would be happy. 3 Advanced and 7 Standard tokens per week is good too. Since duplicate supports give riso instead, this shouldn't cause a problem. 
3) All supports should be available in tokens. Period.