Are 4* - 5* Feeders falling behind?

JSP869

It seems to me that new 4* & 5* characters are being introduced faster than the updates to 4* champion rewards, and so it appears that the 4*/5* feeders are slowly but steadily falling further and further behind.

Updating the 4*s champion rewards to make them 5* feeders will dump a bunch of 5* covers into the game, potentially widening the gap between the "Haves" and "Have Nots". But the "Haves" are already well entrenched in the 5* game, and a handful of 5* Champion levels won't make much difference to someone who has most if not every 5* Championed. For the people already playing the high end 4* game, I think this would help them transition to the 5* game, it may increase their enjoyment of the game, and it could result in them spending a little more to play the game.

Changing 4* Champions' rewards may delay the progression of lower level players, because as they level up their new 4* Champions they're going to get fewer Legendary Tokens. That will prolong the time it takes them to accrue enough Tokens for 300+ pulls. However, they will reliably get more 5* covers, and that will help them in the long run.

If people have played the game long enough (or spent enough) to be able to reach the 4* game and begin the transition to the 5* game, I think D3 should be rewarding this level of "customer loyalty", and increasing the number of 4*/5* feeders is one way of doing that.

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I know, I know. These types of "essays" traditionally have 5 paragraphs, and I'm sure that's not the only English essay "rule" I've violated here. Essay writing never was my strong suit

HoundofShadow

4* are always released every 2 weeks in a month followed by a 5*. Based on other veterans' comments, the release schedule has always been this frequent. So, I'm not sure what made you perceived that they are being introduced faster. There might be one or two odd cases where the 4/4/5 schedule was not adhered to, but I think it was due to special event.

As for feeders to 5*, it was introduced in November 2017 and 5* was already out in Sep 2015. There's a two year gap in between them. I mean if feeder for 5* was introduced concurrently with 5* release, then I agree that it has slowed down. But it isn't the case.

I think they are doing a good job updating 4* champ rewards to give 5* covers. 

If you want to talk about customer loyalty, how should the devs compensate veteran players who have already champed most of the five stars or brought their five stars to 550 because updating those 4* to give 5* coversdon't benefit them much.

Quebbster

We just got six fivestar feeders in a three week period. That is not falling behind, it's catching up. Only a handful of fivestars lack feeders now. (Surfer, Hulk, Strange, Ock, Gambit, Archangel, Ghost Rider and Jessica Jones).

Shintok17

The reason why we got so many feeders so fast was, because of the 10 Year MCU Anniversary event, so don't expect 5* feeders to come at that fast pace again. It will now revert back to normal.

BoyWonder1914

Shintok17 said:

The reason why we got so many feeders so fast was, because of the 10 Year MCU Anniversary event, so don't expect 5* feeders to come at that fast pace again. It will now revert back to normal.

Let's see if they surprise us for Anniversary. Cautious optimism lol. 

Bubba3210

I would like to see the three stars give out rewards for additional four stars or at least be revamped by removing duplicate feeders for Teen Jean, Wolverine, etc. I’m not too worried about the fives yet because they are not released as frequently.

JSP869

Shintok17 said:

The reason why we got so many feeders so fast was, because of the 10 Year MCU Anniversary event, so don't expect 5* feeders to come at that fast pace again. It will now revert back to normal.

That's pretty much the crux of my essay, and the reason for my concern. 

It's not that we're getting more 4*s faster than we have in the past, or that the 5*s aren't getting feeders, it's that we're getting 4*s and 5*s at a faster rate than which the 4* champion rewards are being updated.

So every 6 weeks we get two new 4*s and one new 5*, but only one 4* (or two at most) is converted to a 5* feeder.

If one 4* is converted to a 5* feeder every 6 weeks and if they add a new 5* every 6 weeks, they're always going to be behind the 8-ball with 8-9 5*s not having a feeder. To catch up, they should be updating two 4*s to make two 5* feeders every 6 weeks. If they were to do so, they will be caught up by this time next year when we can expect to have ~36 5*s.

And this doesn't even get into the issue with the game already being so top heavy that there are currently more 4*s than 1-3*s combined, which only exacerbates the situation even more so for newcomers to the game.  At the current rate, by this time next year we'll have ~91 4* characters, almost twice as many as there are 3*s. Any newcomer to the game with an ounce of common sense will look at that and quickly realize there is no way they can catch up to the veterans or even come close to closing the gap without spending a small fortune, or playing for a very long time, and even then they'll still be years behind us.

Which brings me to HoundofShadows' question: how do you reward the veterans with multiple 550 5* champions?

The same way you can make newcomers think they might be able to catch up, by updating the champion rewards. The rewards for higher level 4* and 5* champions could be improved/increased, and paid out retroactively, just as 5* covers are now when a feeder is created.  For example, you could double the CP, HP, and Iso, and give two LTs for 5* champions over 500, and two LTs for 4* champions over 320. Just as an example.

For the 1-3* characters, the 1*s could be upgraded to allow them to become Champions as well, with each of the eight 1*s being a feeder for one to two 2*s and giving out alternating covers. Likewise, as there's only 14 2*s in the game but currently 47 3*s, each 2* could be upgraded to become a feeder for two to three 3*s, and each 3* could become a feeder for two 4*s.

Because D3 make almost all of their money from the purchase of HP (I think), the rest of the Champion rewards (HP, CP, Iso) for the 2-3* characters would remain as they are now, which would help motivate the newer players to buy HP so they can roster all of the characters whose covers they're now getting.

A positive side effect of having 1*s be able to be championed is that the glut of Standard Tokens we're constantly getting would become more than just a source of Iso to the veterans. Of course we'll also have a 1* farm in addition to our 2* and 3* farms, and I know views on that will be conflicting.

Straycat

I think there is little rhyme or reason behind when and who become feeders. The only thing we can do is observe trends to try and guess. The trends so far are: feeders aren't characters that benefitted from vaulting, and its about one feeder every 6 weeks. But then we had a bunch over a short period, and new releases are coming with a feeder attached.

Why the change? MCU celebration? Ok, but why the slow release originally? To ease the burden for people to champ them. But now with unlimited saved covers, there's no reason to keep it slow.

JSP869 said:

If one 4* is converted to a 5* feeder every 6 weeks and if they add a new 5* every 6 weeks, they're always going to be behind the 8-ball with 8-9 5*s not having a feeder.

They would always be behind, but not falling behind. So at worst they are staying put, but I would guess we would be catching up.

JHawkInc

First, there was a time when there were NO feeders, so even if they aren't keeping up, having feeders is an improvement overall.

Second, up until the MCU 10-year Anniversary, we were getting a feeder right at once a month. We got an extra in April, and Jubilee was "late", but then Ant-Man was "on time", then Valkyrie was "on time", but she was the start of the 10-year Celebration. We basically gave up the "September 4* update" for six extra ones in August.

They're ahead of the game because of the 10-year celebration, but if they go back to one every 4 weeks (anyone wanna place bets on a Kitty feeder announced during Anniversary?), they'll be coming faster than new 5*s every 6 weeks or so.

tiomono

There is no trend or solid pattern to gauge who a feeder will be or when it will happen. They have been catching up and only have a few that do not have feeders yet.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Emma frost give kitty shortly after her release.

Pongie

HoundofShadow said:

If you want to talk about customer loyalty, how should the devs compensate veteran players who have already champed most of the five stars or brought their five stars to 550 because updating those 4* to give 5* covers don't benefit them much.

Excess 5* covers can be swap to any 5* covers if maxed at 550. Typically means feeding the latest 5*. Yes, it doesn’t add any benefit to their roster playability, since they will only use 550s but it does speed up getting newer 5*s to 550. 

smkspy

I just hope they'll knock out the remaining 5s before the year is over. It's like what? 7 or 8 left? Just finish that band-aid.

Drlex

For me I would like to see them finish off the others for anniversary, and start working on a second feeder for each 5*. There plenty of choices.

GrimSkald

Other than a few deviations, they've been pretty regularly releasing one 4*-5* feeder per season.  That's one every four weeks, not eight.  If they adhered to this strictly, it means they will catch up to all the 5*s, but it will take them a long tinykitty time.  They've been giving us extras, heck for the 10 year anniversary they gave us 5 extra, so it seems like they may catch up soonish.

What I'm really curious about is that the last two 5* releases have gotten feeders before they went into tokens (Wasp and Loki.)  If they continue to do this, it will definitely alleviate the mad scramble to get at least one cover for the new guy so we can play the restricted node.  I'm very interested to see if they'll do this for Kitty....

JSP869

The rumor I've seen is that Professor X may become Kitty's feeder. I'll be happy with that. I scored the Token from her vault but didn't get her cover. My Prof X on the other hand is around level 287 so if he does become her feeder before or when she enters Latest, I'll get her that way.

Dragon_Nexus

Their pattern recently has been to use newer 4*s to feed a 5*, so my guess is it's gonna be Emma Frost that feeds Kitty.

Quebbster

Dragon_Nexus said:

Their pattern recently has been to use newer 4*s to feed a 5*, so my guess is it's gonna be Emma Frost that feeds Kitty.

I find that unlikely since they usually use a fourstar that's awarded in the PvE that's running as a feeder. Emma was just awarded in PvE, it's unlikely we will see her again so soon. But I could be wrong.

Also, it's been a very mixed bag of recent fourstars and older fourstars as feeders. Just looking at the 10th anniversary celebrations, Winter Soldier and War Machine is by no definition "newer". MEHulk is almost a year old now. Shuri, Valkyrie and Iron Spiderman were all released this year, so I can agree they are "newer", but they were a bit more vintage than Emma is at this Point.

Personally, I Think Nightcrawler would make a pretty sweet feeder for Kitty. They have worked together a lot (Excalibur!), and he is a more recent release than Professor X. In fact, he is just a bit older than MEHulk...

I guess we will see next week if there is any announcement.

smkspy

Dragon_Nexus said:

Their pattern recently has been to use newer 4*s to feed a 5*, so my guess is it's gonna be Emma Frost that feeds Kitty.

Except for new release 5s, we've seen a (beginning) pattern of using older-ish 4s:

Antman for Wasp
MEH for Loki

Professor X or Nightcrawler would fit this pattern.